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01. Holy Name Cadets 02. Carolina Crown 03. Blue Devils 04. Cavaliers 05. Santa Clara Vanguard 06. Bluecoats 07. Phantom Regiment 08. Blue Stars 09. Boston Crusaders 10. Blue Knights 11. Glassmen 12. Colts 13. Troopers 14. Madison Scouts 15. Spirit 16. Academy 17. Crossmen 18. Pacific Crest 19. Mandarins 20. Pioneer 21. Cascades

The Holy Name Cadets and possibly Carolina Crown will be performing after Blue Devils during finals week!

What people don't seem to understand is difficulty and demand do not equal good. To be blunt, and I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for saying this, this show is a disaster - visually. The uniforms are absolutely horrible (guard and corps proper). I'll agree the musical book is pretty darn good and the brassline is great, but they are hindered once again by a visual program that is difficult for the sake of being difficult. Why design a poor drill, that makes no sense musically, that is so demanding? If you're going to put a poor design on the field, make it less demanding so the performers actually have a chance. I am just left scratching my head wondering why no one powerful enough within the organization to influence things didn't say, "These uniforms are atrocious" or "This drill is so poorly designed and too demanding." It's much like 2006. And, the opening sequence with the guard is just awful. Even I think I could design a better guard sequence than this. Do these designers actually think the product they produced is good? I do not believe the '09 Scouts are as good as the '08 Scouts, nor do I believe they will make finals this year. Shoot me if you want, but this organization has repeatedly taken wrong turn after epic wrong turn since the 2005 season. It's just really sad and really frustrating.

Holy crap!

Why does someone always do this in these types of threads? Do you honestly think you're being funny or original?

I want Crown to win, but I think it will go: 1. Holy Name Cadets 2. Carolina Crown 3. Blue Devils 4. Cavaliers 5. Santa Clara Vanguard 6. Phantom Regiment 7. Bluecoats 8. Boston Crusaders 9. Blue Stars 10. Blue Knights 11. Glassmen 12. Colts

No, I do not think so. Their show is honestly not very well designed - it won't be able to top the Colts at the end of the season. Basically, the entire top 11 from last year will be the top 11 this year. The only difference we will see between finals last year and this year is: Colts in, Madison out!

Well it depends on what you are doing before you stop and what you will be doing after you stop, but by and large I disagree with this statement. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to play while standing still - you're not moving (no bouncing effect) and you're not worried about dressing forms and thinking of playing while marching.

Actually, I predicted 8th or 9th, which isn't a stretch considering they were 12th the year before. What's your point? It's predictions. I mean really, so what? Who cares if someone predicted them to be top 6? Look up the definition of prediction please.

Well difficulty and demand do not equal good. I may get slaughtered for saying this, but Crown's show is exceptionally more well designed (musically and visually) than Madison's. I honestly have not been happy with anything I've seen from Madison since 2005. IMO, the uniforms have been an utter disaster 2006 and on, and the overall design of the shows has left me scratching my head wondering how these designers ever got work in the first place. Don't get me wrong, there are (a few) moments of Madison's show I like - there is some good design in there, but it's way too far and between - Crown is exceptional from start to finish. Bring on the firing squad - I'm ready, but I am not going to lie about how I feel, and Madison is still going down the wrong path IMO.

Check out Blue Knights website - they have an awesome score section where you can compare head to head and caption scores. It's very cool.

You all need to really let up on this. It's not fair. Crown fans are no different than anyone else. I could say the same for almost every other corps. Who cares what people say? Why do you let it bother you so much. It's lame that people let fans tarnish their reputation. That said, I have no problems with Crown. I have loved them since 2006. In fact, until this year, that 2006 was my favorite Crown show. This one seems more in line with '06 than '07 or '08, which makes me really happy. I think they have an awesome product this year, and it is very demanding - both visually and musically. Personally, I am pulling for Crown, Vanguard, Regiment, Cadets and Madison this year. They are my Fav 5 and although I wish every corps the best - I hope these five have spectacular seasons. I'll end with - no one on here should let what anyone says about any corps diminish their enjoyment of that corps. No one on here speaks for an entire organization.

Sorry dude, but I don't think that's fair. I've seen fans from nearly ever corps on here be "honks" as you call them, especially Madison, Bluecoats and Regiment. People get excited. Crown is my "hope they win" corps this year as well, but I don't think Crown fans are slamming other corps. I have defended them and mentioned other corps to get my point across, but don't consider that a slam. You know - even if every Crown fan on here was slamming ever single other corps, you still should not let that reflect on Crown. I certainly would be shocked if anyone affiliated with the Crown organization is slamming any other corps. A single person, whether they have marched or not, does not speak for an entire organization.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Crown's show this year is absolutely a top 3 show in design and difficulty, Bluecoats '07 show was not a top 3 show on any level. People need to stop comparing them. Crown is for real. Personally, I would be elated if they won it all. Way too early to tell, but it's shaping up to be a fantastic year for them.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Crown's show this year is absolutely a top 3 show in design and difficulty, Bluecoats '07 show was not a top 3 show on any level. People need to stop comparing them. Crown is for real. Personally, I would be elated if they won it all. Way too early to tell, but it's shaping up to be a fantastic year for them.

Not really: Madison didn't exactly have success in 1990 going to to California - 9th place finals. Star went out there in '88 and finished 7th.

I'm going to say Holy Name by at least a point!

I absolutely think it will please the majority this year. Like I said, it is so well performed and the visual show is sweet. I'm not saying the musical show is crap, because it's quite good, merely that they tried to make WSS too different from '84 IMO. Still, it's sweet to watch.

I don't think it's old school at all. In fact, I think this arrangement of WSS is just not that good. It lacks A LOT of melodic flow IMO. It's like it was created to be as different as possible from the '84 show (and that was one of the greatest ever) for the sake of being different. Musically, it's a shadow of the '84 show IMO. That being said, it is very well played and well marched, and I think the visual package is absolutely fantastic. Whether I like it or not, isn't the point - this is a great corps and I believe they will be right up there at season's end. Musically, it just leaves me really flat. I don't think over the past few years people were shouting for the Cadets to go old school - but rather dump the cheesy, and quite frankly stupid, narration that completely and utterly detracted from the abilities of the drums, horns and guard. It's nice to see the Cadets returning to doing what they do best. Who knows - maybe by year end this will be one of my favorite shows ever. I hated '91 Star for a long time and it is now my single favorite show ever. And, I hated Cadets '91 for a long time - now I think it was brilliant. I'll give this '09 Cadet show time, as I think it may get better musically with some changes.

Well, that's where I thought processes differ, because it has happened within the last 20 years. It happened in 1997 and it happened in 2005. 1997 Santa Clara Vanguard (3rd place) 1996: 5th place (barely) 1995: 6th place 1994: 5th place 1993: 7th place 1992: 7th place 1991: 4th place 1990: 6th place 2005 Phantom Regiment (3rd place) 2004: 5th place 2003: 4th place (barely) 2002: 5th place (tie) 2001: 6th place 2000: 7th place 1999: 8th place 1998: 8th place In both cases, there is no way any member of those 1997 or 2005 corps had ever placed in the top 3. Heck, it's doubtful that anyone (maybe a few) involved with 1989 SCV or 1996 Regiment (last time either was in the top 3) was involved in the 1997 or 2005 corps. Your basing your argument on competitive inertia, which I just don't buy. Both corps above broke in after finishing 5th, after a long long hiatus from the top 3, with shows that were not on the level of '08 Crown. That's all I'm saying - I'm trying to argue against those discrediting Crown - they, IMO, have as good of a chance as anyone to win this year. Do I think they will? Probably not, but they have a chance.

I did and I tried to edit before anyone saw it. Too late. I think we can at least agree that this is shaping up to be one hell of a year. I love SCV's show to death and it will be interesting to see where they end up.

I stand corrected - it was not a surprise at all to see Phantom place in the top 3. And, after 1989, I wasn't surprised one bit with Star placing in the top 3. I knew in '89 that Star had a turned a major corner on the way to becoming a contender. I was right. I have the same feeling with Crown last year.

Well, that very wise man sees things differently than I do. I don't think of corps in terms of placements, but in terms of years. I see a 7th place Bluecoats '07 corps that was superior to that 4th place '06 corps. When I want to jam to Bluecoats I turn to '01, '05 or '07 - those are the memorable shows (for me). Heck, I think the '05 was better than the '06 corps. You can throw statistics out all you want about who has beaten who - but don't forget....Bluecoats (and Crown) have never beaten BD, Cavies or Phantom at finals. Bluecoats beat BD once in their history, and Cavies once (in 20 years - 1988 to 2008, once in '07). That's nothing to brag about. I'm sorry, but '08 Crown was better in every fashion than Bluecoats '06. I'm not trying to diminish Bluecoats achievements - their '05 through '07 shows (esp '07) were great IMO. I was merely thwarting the poster who compared the two - '06 Bluecoats and '08 Crown are on different levels IMO. Of course we cannot guarantee what is going to happen and whom is going to finish where. I said my belief is that both Crown and Cadets will be top 3 this year. Of course, Phantom, BD, SCV, Cavies and perhaps Bluecoats will have something to say about it. However, it is also my belief that as a corps who was 1.3 out of first last year, they will be even better this year. That doesn't leave a lot of room for Crown to not make the top 3. You can't say a corps who's never been in the top 3 has it harder - that's false. Phantom cracked in in 2005 following the same method Crown has been following - constant improvement. Yes, we all know Phantom was in the top 3 many times in their history, but not a single member of that 2005 corps had ever placed in the top 3 before, much less been within a shot of the title. SCV had a similar bump up in 1997. Competitive Inertia is baloney - this Crown corps is no less competent than Garfield in '82, Cavies in '86, Madison in '88, Star in '90, SCV in '97 or Regiment in '05. None of those corps had anyone (who was not previously a member of another corps - well we had one member from '81 in our '88 corps) place in the top 3 prior to them breaking in/back in. Yes, I realize the competition is even tougher today. So, of course, it's possible Crown could be better than last year and finish 4th or 5th. But, it is just as possible that Crown could win this year, whether they have placed top 3 or not - they obviously have the goods this year. I just believe they will not be lower than 3rd. That is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard. Maybe I'll end up being right, maybe I'll be wrong. I've been both before. We'll see at the end of the season, but I think both Crown and Holy Name have the two best shows (inside and out, from top to bottom) of anyone I have heard/seen. Of course, I have not seen Phantom or Cavies, so who knows. And you are right, strong starts do not always equal strong finishes, but that usually applies in cases where a corps does not have a solid show to begin with - Crown does. A few tweeks are needed, but it is in great shape already.

Me either. Would love to see Crown, HNC and SCV battling for the title. I cannot wait to see/hear anything from Regiment. I wish some ADP's were up from the midwest.

How can you not live Bernstein? All I know, is I believe the battle between HNC and Crown is going to be one of the ages. It'll be really exciting to see how everyone else measures up to these two.