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Jeff, For once, we are completely in agreement. And it doesn't surprise me ONE BIT that Michael said these things... he's one of the best and the best designers know that the old saying is true: "Write to your audience." Coming from a (former) high school design staff which, in my opinion, took some risks with our programming choices, one of the biggest lessons I took away from there was that if it wasn't completely understandable to the audiences, we were going to fall flat on our faces (and we did, more than once,) because the judges are part of the audience... they go on the same journey through your show that the rest of the crowd goes on. There are ways to make things obvious and apparent even if the concept is esoteric... you just have to be clever about how you present your ideas and think them all the way through to make sure the audience gets the message. I just had a discussion with someone about this. He was of the opinion that GE judges can't POSSIBLY all judge effect the same way... and I told him "GE judges are just audience members with tape players. They simply deconstruct the show and analyze the show including WHAT type of effects that are going on, WHEN they happen, HOW they happen, and if those effects work in relation to the group's message that they initially set up for themselves." That's it, it's pretty cut and dry, GE is not the nebulous thing that so many people make it out to be.

I've only seen a few snippets of the show on youtube but so far I would totally agree... this year's show isn't working as well as last year's show... YET... like you said... we'll see :)

I know people who have told me this exactly... they didn't make Cadets, PR, Cavaliers, etc. so they just didn't march. It does happen, the kid doesn't care about another corps, they wanted to march with one corps... what that kid doesn't realize is, one way to gain a HUGE advantage for getting into said world class corps the following year is to march a year at a good senior corps and/or open class corps. In fact, they are usually ENCOURAGED by the world class staffers to go get more experience and come back. For some reason, that doesn't happen as often.

Shows must be understandable to their audience. Part of the way General Effect works is by using "Asthetic" qualities inheirent in the music and visual... qualities causing the audience to identify and recognize. There are ways for designers to "explain" themselves through the choices they make. If they choose not to explain something that is lost on most of the audience then they probably could have done a stronger job designing that aspect of the show that is not understood. A really easy example of using costuming and design to explain a concept was Cavaliers 1995. As most probably know, "The Planets" is a piece, not actually about the planets in the solar system, but about the Gods they represented. So how did the designers of that show choose to explain this through the visual program they put out? What choices did they make and did they successfully get the message across to the audience who may not have known that?

And the penalties?

I'm not talking necesarrily about Blast... Blast seriously limited itself by sticking to a proscenium stage. Being able to see those shows higher up would greatly improve things. As for indoor acoustics, that would be part of the challenge.. re-learning how to make these groups sound great indoors... it certainly is doable... the current slew of wind instruments that are available today were designed to sound best indoors, not outside... (yes I know the instruments drum corps play are marketed to outdoor ensembles, and they are slightly tweaked to try and make them sound as good as possible outside, but brass and woodwind instruments were created hundreds of years ago with the intent that they be played in the concert hall.) I think it would sound better than you are making it out to be. Remember the only acoustic instruments currently viewable indoors are usually percussion... and A LOT of indoor groups overplay. Please keep in mind this is not a scenario that I am saying I WANT to happen and I'm not talking about it like it's a choice. This is a prediction about what is coming and what MIGHT happen based on the current state of things and where i see them going.

I'm not sure if you meant this to be humorous or not, but you're basically right... the climate for drum corps in its current form becomes more inhospitable year after year. Something has to change.

GreenTrumpetier, That is all very romantic, however, there IS, in fact a VERY concrete price put upon your experience. Your dues, while paying for much of your experience, don't pay it all, and eventually, when the Cavaliers have to charge $5,000.00 per member, I doubt they will have the numbers at audition that they currently have.

Eddie, I look forward to hearing more from you, I know very little about the Japanese system, I've only seen a handful of groups on youtube and I am in awe of what some of them accomplish, but whatever the reasons that they are inside, and whether or not people would "rather" have DCI outside is not the point. I think it's going to become a reality that going indoors with smaller groups, smaller venues, and less cost is going to be the wave of the future if this activity wants to survive. Time has shown the indoor drum line and winter guard activities expanding, almost out of control, and the outdoor activity dimishing and shrinking nearly EVERY year for the past 30 years (with the exception of DCA, but I think they're an exception since they only rehearse and perform on weekends and do not tour.) I don't think it's what ANYONE wants, but it's time to batten down the hatches, in my opinion. I wish we could continue as usual forever, but that's not in line with reality. It's time for a new business model because the current one appears to be eating itself alive. Unfortunatly the way I've seen things go with drum corps, things won't change until it's ALMOST too late. There are far more gyms that can handle groups with 50-75 members than there are football stadiums that can handle the crowds that are drawn, and provide the housing facilities these 150-member outdoor units require. With rising fuel costs and the ever-dwindling funds available for all the arts, eventually they are going to price themselves out of the outdoor business. My point is, this might happen, it might not... but if it does, I don't think it would be all bad... Far from it. There are far too many people heavily invested in this wonderful activity to let it die. Obviously DCI is content to let many many many junior corps die out and do nothing... just for the heck of it, I once contacted DCI about trying to start a new corps and their reponse was "Here are our requirements, we'll be back when you have 50 members, a business plan, and a non-profit charter, good luck!" They are NOT in the business of planting the seeds for new drum corps... they take an extreme "lessai-faire" approach. I only hope they have a backup plan when the time comes... and it WILL come here sooner than many people think.

First a little about me: Like most my age, I got my start in marching band. I have a tremendous respect for the history of the drum corps activity, I wasn't there to witness much of it but I have read a lot and talked to a lot of people who WERE. I believe that to know where we are going, we must know where we have come from... DUH. I have marched senior drum corps in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007, I am 28 years old. I write music and drill on the side as well as teach band, and I hope to someday make it my primary living. In other words, I am trying to make it my business to know about this thing we call drum corps, marching band, and indoor. I also have judged for marching band and indoor in the past, more so on the visual side of things. So, with that said, I would like to make some predictions about where this activity is headed. These are my own ideas and they are purely academic, guesses at best based on what I am seeing and hearing. I don't see these predictions as necessarily bad, but they are going to bring about A LOT of change if they come true. Prediction: Drum corps as we know it, will cease to exist within 10 years. No, I'm not talking about woodwinds, I'm not talking amps or electronics. I'm talking about moving indoors. Eventually I predict that cost is going to overtake even the most financially-versatile corps and we will have a massive die-off of many groups in a very short period of time. Some World Class, some Open Class. However this will probably be a final thinning of numbers as I predict what will then happen is that DCI, WGI, and possibly BOA will then decide to form some sort of merger. Perhaps resulting in a single organization that operates year-round. What will result from this is... Drum corps will probably add woodwinds at THIS point if they haven't already, and number of members allowed will drop (or at least the number of people you see in the average group will drop) to permit utilizing indoor venues. Why I think this: The writing is on the wall... moving to a PERMANENT home at an INDOOR dome in Indy? Can we say "conditioning the audiences?" Partnerships with WGI and BOA already in place, and DCI's BOD seems hell-bent on making the activity as close in superficial appearance to marching band as possible without completely alienating themselves. That, plus DCI is practically forcing themselves to be priced out of the outdoor business. What I think about it: I am in favor of this change and here is why: I think at this point the activity is going to have a rebirth... costs will drop drastically, it will take less overhead to start a group and they just might start springing up all over the place... some independent, some scholastic... we might even see a resurgence of funding to scholastic music programs as there will be more opportunities for bands to compete and for districts to receive recognition (something ANY administrator or school board member JUST LOVES.) I believe that the bigger organizations may still tour, but I think the competitive structure is going to change... I think we will see things move more toward WGI's model of competition: Different ability levels: World, Open, and "A" and separation between scholastic and independent organizations. Basically the boundaries between marching band and drum corps will no longer exist and there will simply be scholastic and independent musical ensembles. It's happening other places in the world, like Asia, already. With smaller ensembles there exists the very real possibility that shows might someday be held in gymnasiums found in schools, churches, and the like all over the country in GREAT supply... much like indoor currently does... lower overhead and less cost to run a show will mean MORE shows, more groups, and more kids involved than in the past 30 years. In Conclusion: I personally believe that there is a lot to be said for outdoor marching activities. They are very unique and are an essential American art form. However, the costs are simply getting too high to have SO MANY people per group in order to push out the sound and show the color and movement to which we have all become accustomed. Indoor settings are more intimate, you can use fewer people per group and produce just as much (or more) sound, color, and motion. The wear and tear on equipment will also be lessened: Groups will get more mileage out of horns, drums, and especially guard equipment, costumes, and uniforms. Indoor venues will also allow a group to create new and different effects previously inconceivable on a football field. There will be far more creativity and more innovation... we are going to see and hear things we have NEVER EVER experienced before. Indoor venues would make amplification in any form a moot point and electronics could be utilized to greater effect, and safety. I'm sure this post is going to make some people VERY upset, but it's just my opinion and you don't have to agree with it. I've said it once and I'll say it again... the only thing that stays the same is change. I do not believe the end is near as some have said, but dramatic change and a new exciting frontier, IMHO, is. Regards, Ed Francis. *Side note: Before you say anything, check this out: I think you would be hard pressed to say that this group from Japan does not capture the exhillaration of America's outdoor drum corps, indoors. Notice they have a smaller color guard, and more musicians, notice that when the guard dances it is more effective due to the more intimate venue, notice they have greater versatility and physical stamina in terms of marching as they are moving on a hard surface, notice they don't have any yard lines except a "50." Notice that 1/2 the band was under the age of 16, notice all the extremely difficult music they can play at a younger age, because they have less of a concern with echoes and phasing, as well as the surface they march on. If this is the direction that the activity heads... More groups? More shows? More kids involved at younger ages? Sign me up!

How fitting that you use the example of a young child. Wow, I can't think of a better analogy, people who whine about amps and electronics sound like little 6 year olds. Wow, that was a brilliant revalation.

I can't help but notice all the unsigned posts in this subject. Come out of the shadows you drum corps-hating cowards.

Agreed, by the end of the season, the words were just right and very impactful.

Ha ha ha thanks guys. As you might have guessed, I have had some experience judging, not drum corps, I've done marching band and indoor, but most marching band judges are trained in the same way as DCI. It's a tough tough job to be accountable for ranking and rating something that people have poured their life blood into. It's taken VERY seriously and usually judges that dont' do the job weed themselves out after being screamed at by one too many instructors. If not, they are usually either asked to leave or are placed at shows where they will have very little impact. It's not a perfect system, but I sure couldn't think of a better one at this point.

Bill, I think you are operating from several misconceptions: First of all, "build-up" doesn't necessarily mean starting with a zero score. Saying a corps "starts at zero" is just a way of simplifying what really goes on to contrast it against the tick system, which starts with a perfect score. Secondly, this is how judges make their decisions... I think it's a little different than you think... On the back of every DCI score sheet you will find five boxes in a row from left to right. (Box 1 thru Box 5) Each box has a range of score numbers in it. While watching a performance, each judge must look at their sheets and decide what score range each corps belongs in. Each judge decides what box the corps belongs in based on the language in each box on the back of their respective sheets. If the corps meets or exceeds the criteria but doesn't meet the criteria in the next box up, they should be scored in the upper part of that box. Converseley, if they don't meet all the criteria in the box, but they exceed every criteria in the next lower box, then they should be in the lower part of the box. Where comparing corps-to-corps comes in is where that corps is ranked WITHIN that box... for example: Corps "A" comes out and meets much of the criteria in box 4, so they are scored in the middle of box 4, then corps "B" comes out and also meets much of the criteria in box 4, but... they meet the criteria just a little bit more based on the commentary the judge is giving, so they are scored a few tenths above corps "A" while still remaining in box 4. So every number tells us two things: It shows us how much of the established criteria each corps is meeting, and where they relate to the other corps at that competition. Judges must be VERY accountable for comparing corps with evidence on the tapes and sheets that SAY why they put down the number that they did. The corps are judged on their own merits first, and then compared side-by-side to every other corps in the class. It's very objective, and yet, very much subjective at the same time as each judge has different experiences in the activity. However, the judges have supposedly been trained to recognize skills and merit in very much the same way. Judges must be very careful to leave space in the boxes, especially during the first few corps at a competition in case there are corps that come later whose scores must fall in between other corps that have already performed. When you see spreads in each subcaption, that means something too... typically 1 or 2 tenths difference means the corps are basically comparable and could flip-flop positions on any given night... 3-4 tenths means the corps have minor differences, 5 tenths or more usually means the two corps have signifigant differences in either performer or written book, depending on the subcaption you're looking at. So you see, what a judge "likes" isn't really a consideration, the corps are ranked against themselves AND each other based on the criteria they set up on the sheets for themselves. I'm not sure where this idea comes from where judges are somehow creating their own criteria... they're not... the instructors write the sheets.

RRUMP!!!!!!!!

Box 5 Concepts and Motivation is a design firm based out of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. We specialize in customized visual and audio packages for marching band, drum and bugle corps, indoor guard, indoor percussion, as well as creative educational leadership and motivational solutions for your performance ensemble or organization. For more information please visit our website at www.bx5cm.com for writing samples and more information about the products we offer. Sincerely,

I understand everyone's feelings about this and in some small way, I feel the same... but where is the line drawn? I have never heard one drum corps DIRECTLY rip an arrangement from another corps and if they're not doing that, the corps that decides to use music that's been done before is NOT in the wrong. So much can be said for putting a new spin on a piece of famous music or combining two famous pieces of music, yes? Besides, why would we want to limit the performance of so many GREAT pieces of music that BEAR being heard over and over again? If that rule had been in effect since my drum corps career started I wouldn't have been able to play "The Planets" "On the Waterfront" "Make Our Garden Grow" "1812 Overture" "Carmen" not to mention other pieces. Plus what would that leave us? Most of the new music that's never been played before is being done in BOA and DCI, and given the negative attitude so many people have about that, I'm not sure why people would want this can of worms opened.

Congrats Marianne!!!!! You deserve it you sexy mama! ;)

Really? You witnessed this?? Can you tell me the judge's name and at what show? Because, as they do say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Actually if you didn't have any brass, percussion, or color guard, you would recieve a zero in the percussion, brass, and guard captions and have a lower score. In fact, I do believe that if a corps did not have all three elements, they would be ineligible for the season. Whereas the prescence or abscence of amps do not affect scores.

Yeah really, to those of you who think we can just KEEP drum corps the way it is, YOU will be the ones who would be "in for some very long summers" of not having any drum corps. If the activity does not evolve with the times and with its target audience: (ie- band kids who they want to participate) we lose everything, period. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

I just have one question... How and why will WW and electonics "ruin" drum corps? Saying "Because that makes it marching band." isn't an argument, it's a prejudicial statement against a perfectly valid educational establishment. It's like they say, you can't define a metaphor with another metaphor. I want quantified statements as to HOW AND WHY adding these things will harm the activity. And also, you can't say "it will be less appealing" because that is an EMOTIONAL statement, it isn't a fact, the level of appeal is a completely personal decision. So come on folks, let all of us "Hoppy-lovers" <sarcasm off> have it...I want THE FACTS about why will this ruin drum corps? No opinions, just facts (PS- Polls and petitions are not facts)

I doubt that. Just like certain people on RAMD said they were leaving when B-flats were passed, just like some people said they were going to leave when they allowed amps (then those VERY SAME PEOPLE turn around and say "Hey, you know what, the pit DOES sound better when amplified, let's keep that! I was ALWAYS ok with this, as long as it's JUST THE PIT") I would love to see some POLLS on that subject... how many hypocrits said they were going to "leave drum corps" and ended up staying because they realized that they were arguing over semantics and that it wasn't really worth leaving over?? Hmmm....

Box 5 Concepts is a pageantry design firm based out of Harrisburg, PA. We have been serving groups in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland for 7 years and are looking to expand our customer base. Our website is currently undergoing a major rennovation and will be down until further notice. Rest assured, when it returns it will be better than ever and will include live samples of some of Box 5's finest work. The record stands: Every single Box 5 client has participated in their respective finals competition. Since 2002, every single group has advanced to the very highest level of competition. If you are interested in contacting Box 5 for the upcoming marching band season regarding design services such as visual, winds, or percussion, please contact us by PM or by emailing to inquiry@bx5cm.com. Feel free to check out our temporary web prescence at: http://bx5cm.com/blog/html Sincerely, Edward Francis Winds and Visual Design Box 5 Concepts and Motivation