cixelsyd

In asking my question, I was thinking of how we, the fanbase, approach prospective fans, not just how shows are designed. Interesting... please continue. I take it these two thoughts are logically connected - and I agree that the participant base supplies many of our most ardent fans. I think there is still a very significant portion of ticket sales coming from casual spectators, though. That only makes sense to a certain extent. a. At this particular point in time, we have many more kids auditioning for corps than the activity can provide positions for. Meanwhile, we have less adults running corps and less adults funding the activity as paying fans. If what we do to attract kids comes at the expense of alienating adults, it requires a closer look to determine if it is a worthwhile tradeoff. b. I have seen the whole "what kids like" meme twisted into justification for rule change proposals that would (or do, ISPO) alter the fundamental nature of the activity. Sure, show design can use music or style familiar to the current generation of marchers, but there are certain basic premises of "drum corps" that are non-negotiable (i.e. should include drums to some extent). Not following the part I underlined. Anyone can buy a ticket and see a drum corps show; that opportunity is not reserved for insiders. "Iron curtain paywall" is not an accurate description, IMO. Every corps has the option of giving their product away, either via public performance with no admission charge, or through an array of audio and video media. That, plus YouTube et al, provides quite a bit outside of the "paywall". Nevertheless... who has become a fan without plunking down some cash and seeing what awaits behind the paywall? And are they a "fan" if unwilling to do that?

I guess that last sentence was in reference to visual design, because neither of those corps have dialed back musically. What Crown is playing in 2013 is the most technically demanding brass program I have ever witnessed on a football field. Cadets surprised me with some ambitious moments of their own. Regiment is similarly ambitious, though that is no surprise. Those are your top 3 technical brass books. BD is nowhere near that level of technical demand.

Personally, I feel the same way. And my question is not meant to single out Crown, as many corps inject research-inducing content into their show design, some relying on it far more than Crown. The question still remains - does this practice of creating thematic scavenger hunts for diehard fans (and judges) backfire with the casual fan, to the degree of pushing them away from the ticket counter? Probably a question better left for the off-season (and fairer to be asked in a thread not linked to a specific corps).

You know, I never really believed that the retreat from historic peak audience size was due to the nature of the shows drum corps are putting out there. But this makes me reconsider. With profound themes being "required" these days, and so many people saying we must research the shows to enjoy them, could we be turning off some people to the point where they decide not to go to shows in the first place?

Why were Columbians in exhibition, instead of competing?

I think the "door" was in their 2005 show.

No. It has a lot more voice, but voice is not a design feature that belongs (either exclusively or annually) to the Blue Devils. But because of the Dada show, I see why some draw that analogy.

Why would numbers on just WC be more informative than the overall activity numbers MikeD refers to? World class status is an arbitrary distinction made by activity insiders via frequently changing policies. For those unaware, here are examples of how dramatic those changes have been. - Until around 1994, corps were free to choose what class to compete in, and thus "open class" was the label assigned to the top class BITD. DCI had no class divisions in their first three years. In 1974, the East Scarborough Kinsmen, a class C corps from Ontario that did not even have a full length show, competed in the DCI Championship prelims, taking an undertime penalty and finishing in last place. Were they "world class"? - From 1975 to 1982, DCI had open class and class A, but corps had to choose one or the other. However, each contest was different. In four seasons (1977, 1978, 1980 and 1981), the Bluecoats competed in class A at the U.S. Open, then competed in open class at DCI Championships. Were the Bluecoats "world class" in those years? - From 1983 through 1993, DCI employed various class definitions which allowed the highest placing corps from lower classes to advance into open class prelims. Corps like the 1984 Florida Wave advanced farther, into the top 25 and DCI membership. The Ventures, an all-girl unit that had formerly competed in a separate class when all-girl corps were more numerous, made top 25 five years in a row while competing annually in class A. Were these corps "world class"? - From 1994 through 2002, the top class in DCI was no longer open for anyone to enter. Only member corps and a certain number of advancing corps from the lower divisions could compete in the division I prelims. The number of member corps was capped at an arbitrary maximum of 21, after having fluctuated between 12 and 25 over the years. The number of advancing corps was initially kept at 7, but later revised to just 5. At this point, the number of "world class" corps was clearly a number predetermined by DCI policy. - After 2002, the top class was completely separated from the other competitive divisions. No more corps advanced from division II/III to compete in division I later in championship week. Division I (now "world class") and division II/III used separate sheets, thus not competing head to head at any other DCI contests during the season either. Advancement to world class became a process governed by a committee and a vote of the member corps. Again, the number of "world class" corps is now a number determined by the powers that be, not by whether corps are folding. Naturally, when DCI governs how many corps are "world class", the number will be more stable. With 24 corps in world class in 2004 and 2005, the Blue Stars had to move heaven and earth to get into world class. When several world class corps folded after the 2006 season, DCI was remarkably accomodating to Academy in their promotion. Had you posed this same question a year ago, I would have said that world class is undeniably more stable today. Recent events concerning Teal Sound and Glassmen, however, make that answer less clear.

That is not true. Certain critics (judges) may offer praise, but other critics (audience) have opposing reactions. Having trouble with this contention too. Even though intuitively, corps usually do mimic what wins, I do not see other corps mimicking the unique design aspects that have characterized recent BD title winning shows. Maybe some examples would shed light on this.

I had the exact opposite reaction. I thought it was fascinating to hear how Surf would re-arrange the couple of familiar Bridgemen tunes they selected, and how they would convey the Bayonne groove with other songs Bridgemen never played. And since I do not follow pop music, I was prompted to do a little research of my own to find out how cleverly Party Rock Anthem was arranged, and how the visual choices fit with it... and ended up appreciating the show more as a result. I have no problem with a show having many layers and subtle design features to challenge those of us who are deeply engaged in the activity - as long as the first layer is not omitted.

But would homemade signs be the most effective choice for the drum corps representation? In other words, will fans (or GE judges) be more likely to grasp all this background knowledge on first viewing, as you have, or will they simply think the corps skimped on prop workmanship? Sometimes, visual effect is better achieved by taking some latitude with physical/historical accuracy. For instance, the poker chips Spirit of Atlanta used last year would not have been as effective if accurately sized.

Yup. And it gets louder every year. The marimba is an instrument with a limited dynamic range. Anything we do to make a handful of them project over 80 brass and 20 battery at fortissimo is destined to sound unnatural.

No. Troopers beat Blue Stars every time they met in division I for the remainder of that century. Their most recent previous victory against Blue Stars was in Mankato, MN, in 2002, so it has been awhile.

They are treated far better than DCI fans in Canada and Florida.

Neither of those corps will be within three spots of last place in prelims. Care to make a wager?

Protesters often do have enough organization to obtain printed signs, with or without corporate backing. Furthermore, I would prefer the slogans remain relatively generic. I do not want this show getting preachy and divisive. It works for me the way it is, by establishing a general "protest" feel with the visual imagery and music they have selected. Delving deeper into political messaging with more specific slogans (or god forbid, narration) would risk alienating a bunch of fans.

Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings... a. There was never a "G8". The G7 have always been: BD Crown PR Cadets SCV Bluecoats Cavaliers b. Having a special show series for the previous year's top 8 was a DCI idea. Changing that to just the 7 corps listed above, regardless of ranking, was the idea of those 7 corps. The Boston Crusaders were in the TOC series in 2012, but were not given the option of participating in the 2013 TOC despite ranking ahead of the Cavaliers at DCI.

Thought I read somewhere that the corps chose exhibition status for 2013, and intends to compete (and do more shows) in 2014.

Oh, cool. Phantom Regiment has poles, too. With antlers on top. And their horn players carry them around in the drill. While playing. The perceived velocity of the marching is greatly heightened by seeing the members go flying by/through the white antler forest... and whatever else you said.

So to summarize: - we should never boo when scores are announced because it sets a bad example in an activity that teaches life lessons - but a MM posting FYWW is an acceptable example, a life lesson in motivation

She has a point. Had Dreitzer still been with us, arranging and teaching in the junior and senior ranks, it would be interesting to have heard his opinion in 1999, when the issue went forth in DCI. Consider that by that time, instead of a variety of manufacturers making G bugles with a variety of designs, we were down to two manufacturers, and some claim that their G horns were made to the same specs as their Bb/F product lines, just with some more/less tubing to put them in the key of G. The interview provides insightful context too, showing that Dreitzer was ready to go to the three-valve horn 15 years before the majority vote brought it in. So "in his time", he was ahead of his time.

Evidently there is, judging from what you say next. The #1 factor in volume is how loud the individuals play to begin with. Perception might differ due to the arrangements (imagine the same hornline playing Larry Kerchner chords vs. a warmup exercise). If tone quality is so distorted that the player is not really delivering a stable "tone", that will affect the volume - but that is not "tone quality", but rather, failure to produce tone. Intonation honestly does not correlate to volume in the context of a drum corps field performance. Yet, there is a consensus of opinions that hornlines from back then were either equally loud or louder than hornlines of today. If intonation and tone quality were primary determinants of volume, that would not be possible. True today, since the better manufacturers do not make G horns. Jumping from one instrument to another, even just different models of the same instrument, is a challenge. How much of a challenge varies widely among different people and different situations. Suffice it to say, the real advantage in refining a large hornline is having them play the same horns for an extended time period without such switching.

With the implication being that in some year 19xx, they did NOT play music?

I have read articles from the 1950s mentioning blank spots in the drill at various times in the season, so no era was immune to this. One advantage they had BITD was the simpler drill enabled a substitute marcher to learn it quicker. I have read about corps having members who worked rotating shifts, and they would routinely swap people in and out subject to availability.

Yes, it is. Thanks for providing it here. I will be referring back to it soon. Do they all drive you bonkers? Or is it just the ones who voice disrespect toward modern drum corps? Just a month ago, we had a thread on the DCI side asking what we would change if we had the power. One of my suggestions was based on an observation I had from seeing Japanese bands/corps on video. They only use as much equipment as the corps members can bring on/off with them. They still have full pits, flag changes, and some props. They are also able to set up in one minute flat, and get all their stuff off the field that quick too. And with a common sense equipment limitation in place, their groups are not going bankrupt left and right in mid-season. So I suggested I would make that change in DCI. Am I stupid, then? (I probably am, for wading into this.) Some can - some cannot. This particular case involved a post with derisive (and inaccurate) comments about current drum corps. Some people will do that, and may never learn otherwise. But not all dinosaurs have the same roar. I have come to know quite a few dinos myself. To some of them, it is a reasonable and logical belief that some of the changes that drum corps (and other marching arts) have adopted over time have added to the financial and logistical costs of operating a corps/band/guard. These people have seen the requirements for equipment, finances, and human resources multiply tenfold over time. They have also seen the number of corps decrease tenfold, and now watch bands and guards feeling the same pinch from which school budgets used to offer better protection. Like your quote above, this is the "perspective" of some whose involvement in the activity dates that far back. Among these dinos, some spoke out BITD and some still speak out now because they believe there is a cause-and-effect relationship there, and they still hope their voice might have an influence. Others who no longer harbor that hope, of course, might still shoot off a less constructive post of the type that prompted your response, just to vent. I doubt you can impose a statute of limitations on that discussion. Besides, both G and Bb/F are in use by the corps discussed in this forum; therefore, that subject remains relevant. Fortunately, we do not see such comments here "every second", or even every month. And when we do, we probably would not see them repeated if not for the people who reply with the opposing opinion. Takes two to tango. (And the mufflers are nothing compared to a subwoofer at max volume with all car windows open.)