Shadow_7

It depends on how you do the math. G's are cheaper if you plan on buying a new set of horns and plan on running them into the ground. BUT... If you plan on buying new, using a couple of seasons, then selling them. Bb's have a larger resale market and retain their value better. They may not be the best horns for outdoor use, but not all gigs are outdoors. And while you use them outdoors, someone else might not. As far as the Kilties. I marched in 2006 and at that time they still had a number of Bb Yamahas (with G conversion kit / extra tubes). But they switched to all G contras(native key) the following year. Once 4 valves were made legal. i.e. Deg Super Mags. I do tend to agree with the sentiment of IF Bb, then opting for local community band versus drumcorps. With all the strife / expense associated with travel plus performing outdoors, why bother if you get more peformances per year locally at a much cheaper personal cost. I love the sound of G horns. I went to the Vigilantes open house and played on a G mello in an ensemble for a few hours, for the first time in about five years(for mellophone). I really miss that sound and they have a nice hornline. But $1K in corps direct expenses and $1K in corps indirect expenses coming from so far away, I just can't do this year. One other in state option, not to imply local, at least in terms of competition(if, if, if ....), and in such tough times where corps are changing plans mid-season, is it worth the risk? I'd like to, but $400-$1,400 in related expenses goes a long way towards OTHER goals. I love my drumcorps, but even I have my limits. Of course in the traditional drumcorps spirit, testing those limits is the norm.

There's a few schools that are into their althetic departments. Enough so that the city wont divide the schools up to avoid issues. As a result we have a number of nice sized stadiums down here. We'll probably never see a drumcorps competition at them, but the venues exist. And they'd be very suitable for drumcorps. Except for that summer thing. Although technically it's not really any worse than say Southern California. It's just a little more than an hour drive to the beach if you can't take it anymore.

What's a DCA? Some sort of battery powered electronics club? Just saying, if a tree falls in the forest.. If a bear ____ in the woods. Does it exist? 0 DCA competitions in my state last year. Down from 2 the previous year. Maybe things will be different this year with MCL heading to town. Anybodies guess really.

Bb's weren't legal until 2000 for DCI, and legalized in DCA some time later. So not really that long ago from a certain POV. The real question is has there been a DCA champoin on G's since Bb's were made legal?

Not to nit pick, but there's already been shows. I've already performed with a drumcorps (in uniform) twice this year. And recorded two other drumcorps performances that I wasn't performing in. And I'm not technically marching anywhere this year (yet). I think you meant to say Competitions in two months. But even that might be a stretch depending on how you define drumcorps. As I look at all of the april shows for SDCA...

The inherent problem with comparing those horns is that there is a lot of difference between makes on the old horns. A lot of difference. So comparing a 2 valve deg versus a 2 valve king is very different. Where the 3 valve versions with modern design aspects are very similar. Comparing a 3 valve deg to a 3 valve kanstul, I'd say the most noticeable difference is that the deg favors a smaller mouthpiece. Beyond that they're close to identical except for the intonation, ergonomic, and build quality issues from a certain point of view. Back in the day when horns were a bit mixed, between 2 valved degs and 2 valved kings, a lot of members would sell their first born, to NOT have to play the deg. I don't have much exposure to P/R horns of baritone type. I do have a P/R Olds sop though, and not far off from more traditional horns. It's a little harder to play because the rotor moves the horn around with my poor technique, and intonation is a bit squirelly, but it plays more like a normal horn. Basically if you were to compare an Olds P/R bari to an ultratone 2 valve bari to a kanstul 3 valve bari, you might not consider them that different. But if you were to compare a getzen P/R to a deg 2 valve to kanstul 3 valve you would probably consider them a world of difference. And praise whatever god you worship that modern horns are so much better now. Since you're looking to buy them. Just know that some duds of the vintage horns are the ones most likely to be sold, and there's a reason some of those 30+yo horns look so mint, because they were never played, because they suck. Where the better horn will likely look it's age and probably be well past it's service life.

You could post in the marketplace. WTB: baritones of all vintages Or something like that. WTB being short for Want To Buy. As opposed to FS: as in For Sale.

As one who uses a lot of mouthpieces. Just because the corps requires (or strongly encourages) the use of a certain piece when playing on the corps equipment, in the corps, that doesn't mean that the player has to use it outside of corps. Certain horns favor certain mouthpieces. Drumcorps horns tend to favor larger mouthpieces in general. You probably don't play too well after a drumcorps camp, regardless of the gear you used. In this instance the player might have sounded just as bad on their usual piece IMO. It may not have been the piece on that particular day. You really should give it more than a 1st impression before taking someones gear and locking it away. Especially if they just got back from a drumcorps camp yesterday. Not to say that that piece is the right piece for that player. But if you don't use it / give it a try, you'll never know. There is a certain shock period when switching, something which any player on the pro side should be able to cope with. You never know when something odd is going to happen. Like customs screwing you or luggage misdirected at an airport, or accidentally dropping your primary piece over the side of a cruise ship. Or accidentally picking up someone elses horn at the gig. Making due on anything might be a circumstance you have no control over. And sometimes it might be the only way to get through a gig, if you have a swollen lip or other temporary conditions that alters how you might usually do business. The show goes on. If a scholarship / instructor is that hard set on a single piece, they're probably not that good IMO. Each player and each horn is different. Even horns of the same brand and model sometimes. I had a promise of a scholarship going to a particular college. Never saw a dime, was the only trombone player at the school, the school listed the principle trombonist with the LA Philharmonic as the private instructor, but no trombone player at that school had said instructor. And lessons were monthly, not weekly. They had good private instructors, but not that one. Oh and unrelated instrumentalists making recommendations? I had the choral directors on my Jury panel for TROMBONE. Telling me I was using too much air and other *cough* stuff (stupid / illogical stuff). Basically don't spend your scholarships until after the check clears the bank. If said funds are dependent on your mouthpiece, it's probably a scam to start with IMO. You're going to make a lot of compromises in your life, do what's best for you. Which might be the politically wrong thing to do. The consequence of which is that people like you less and give you less. But they probably weren't going to give you anything to start with, so effectively nothing is different. Or it is as it would have otherwise been.

The inherent problem is that the Freelancers have always had to pull membership from outside of their region for the drum and bugle corps. Kind of had to with SCV and BD down the block. So local fundraising in the traditional sense just doesn't have the same man power locally to be substantial enough. The alumni was pulled and funds were raised, it just wasn't enough to finish the drumlines season. Not to mention that just existing in California is considerably more expensive than other states. Beyond that ya'all know about as much as I do.

I guess I missed the thread that triggered this one. But there really isn't any privacy anymore. If you work in IT, you have access to literally thousands (sometimes millions) of SSN's and personal info. Even if you don't, if you have a ground line and it's NOT unlisted (default), anyone with basic knowledge can do a reverse lookup and find out everything they need. I've had an old college buddy that I lost contact with look me up on the internet. Everytime mom loses / misplaces her address book, I just look up my brothers home phone numbers and mailing addresses on the internet. You don't need a forum and tidbits to do that stuff. Your bank records are probably ONLINE, even if you don't WANT them to be. Access is not always direct, but it is accessible. I stopped by radioshack the other day, an item that they carry, but didn't have in stock is orderable by WEB ONLY via CREDIT CARD. Which means that I'm probably looking for a second camcorder of a different brand, instead of a spare battery. Basically there's TWO things that I never do online. Send out my SSN, or financial transactions. If you're a business and don't have a phone number and mailing address, you're probably not a business that I want to do business with anyway. Plus while I'm requesting said information I can ask for a discount (10% off and free shipping). I've tried signing up for a few places like facebook or myspace, but they required too much information IMO. Heck, Oracle required you to give them your SSN to download the documentation on how to use their product. Progressive required your SSN to get a quote online. And 99% of the .GOV sites require your SSN online to do the things that you are REQUIRED to do by LAW. Some of these still have the OLD ways of doing things, but that's slowly being phased out. I tend to favor the old ways, if only to ensure that some human somewhere still has a job. I don't even use the ATM anymore. I have an ATM card (am I even allowed to opt out of that?), but I really don't know what my PIN is at this point. Recalling my tour in '93 and having said ATM card and not being able to access my money east of the mississippi. Except at the rather rare B of A.

It depends. Are you going to be pelted off the field with rocks / ice cubes? Then 3x 2v's are better. Fewer parts to replace and a spare horn for parts. Plus the old they don't make them like they used to adage. If you're going to be playing more formal places, then the 2x 3v's might be better. That way when they call you a trumpet player, you can just nod at them.

We had a girl blow a knee out at/after Semi's. We made finals that year. There are a few things that one should take care of before and during learning drill. 1) Take care of yourself physically. You're not doing your corps any good if you're not there physically. I typically wear a hat (not much hair up there anymore, and the sun never cooperates. I typically wear long sleeve shirts and sweat pants. And I've been known to put a handkerchief under my hat to simulate long hair to protect my neck. And all that while rehearsing in July in Texas. It wasn't much different in Jr. Corps when I had hair, and lived in California. I hate the feel of being covered in oil more than being hot. 2) Take care of yourself mentally. You're not doing your corps any good if you're not there mentally. Granted that even if you can count the number of hours of sleep on one hand for the WEEK, you can still write the sets down and save some time later. But if you're always in that state, and not a productive member because of it. Something has to give. 3) Be efficient, but manage risk properly. If you feel the risk is too high, SAY SOMETHING. Recalling my Army days where RANGERS died from hypothermia in FLORIDA while training. (true story, unfortunately) ----- As far as practice fields. The worst one was ALWAYS our 9 to 9 field. ALL fields were nice in comparison.

Looks problematic. The quick open after the cup could help slotting. The tight second throat could help with resistence to keep the high end available. It sure seems to have a lot of mass to it, to compensate for something. The resistence factor will likely render it non-applicable in a lot of drumcorps circles. I'm not a fan of the perfect V backbore, with or without power chamber.

Most lead parts lend themselves to being played on a 2 valve horn. I agree on the weight thing. Having only 2/3rd the valve-age makes a horn noticeably lighter. Of course adding layers of chrome makes it about the same weight. And some of the ergonomics of those early horns put the valve cluster further from the body. If you have a choice, get a King or Olds over a Getzen or Deg 2 valve horn. 3 valves in G and you really only have two choices, Kanstul being the better horn most of the time. On Bb, you've got choice of a dozen manufacturers over the centuries. At least for baritone. Not all manufacturers make a complete line of marching brass. Or at least didn't used to before DCI and DCA legalized 3+ valved horns. Any preferences? G? Bb? Silver / Brass / Chrome / Nickel / Wood (I kid, I kid, sort of). Would you consider a P/R horn a 2 valve horn? With 2 valved horns (pistons) you're probably limited to that late 70's to early 90's model horns. Or Marine DBC surplus. 3 valve G Euphs run about $2K - $3K new, $500 - $1,500 used. 2 valve G Euphs are used by default. I wouldn't pay more than $500 for one, not including shipping. Bearing in mind that the horn is probably a couple decades old at this point. And may not even be playable. As far as Baritones, not my cup of tea, but they're generally cheaper than Euphs. And also harder to get ahold of used as more people want them.

These days they make a .pdf available with the sets. To be printed by the members before camp. Unfortunately they take the same approach with the sheet music. Which doesn't work too well with the older folks who existed before computers, internet, and printers. As I recall one winter camp BITD, where sheets were actually printed. A big ol box of 14" sheets all neatly stapled together. And before we got through stretching a wind cyclone came on by and lifted half of the box of sheets out and up and littered the neighboring blocks with drill charts. I think that's the last time they bothered printing them out.

Gulf Coast Sound and Vigilantes are on G's. World Gone Mad, Revolution, Crossmen, Forte are all on Bb's AFAIK. I think most of the Shriners in state are on G's. 6 of them afaik, although I've only seen 2 in person. Plus a few other prospects in the state of Texas.

There's also counts and special moves. M8 H4 as in Move 8 Halt 4. Sets I write every other line, the transition between sets (counts) go inbetween. There's also special horn moves, foot moves, and other complexities of modern drill. Personally I hate that stuff as a member. Mainly because it's impossible to do cleanly / well. With more defined moves, bells front and flat, bells in and flat, bells front and up, bells in and up (to the box), feet together, feet apart, it's much easier to teach and clean (fewer questions). And doesn't require a minor in dance to compliment your major in music. And it doesn't take a full month to get past learning the drill for the 2 minute opener. (for the 7th time).

It varies from corps to corps. a) have a set book (AND PENCIL / I SAID P-E-N-C-I-L) at all times. b) settle on a coordinate system. And use the same system throughout. c) in practice go to your SPOT. in performance go with the FORM. Know BOTH at all times for all sets. d) have your music memorized BEFORE learning drill (makes it 2000% easier / or at least takes 1/20th the time). e) don't be the last guy (or girl) anywhere. If that means run, then run (except in uniform). If not, then do what's best for you, and what's best for the corps. For a coordinate system, I chose to use numbers and fit as many sets on a page as I can. Only writing on one side of the paper. That way there's fewer pages to flip through to find your set. Some people opt for mini or trimmed printed drill charts. 40+4 FH -1 ----- * [##] is the yardline * [+] is away from the drum major * [-] is towards the drum major * [#] is the number of steps. feel free to use fractions or decimal places. But generally march the best compromise between being right and not making your neighbor(s) look wrong. * [FH] is front hash, [FS] is front sideline, [bH] is back hash, [bS] is back sideline * When near the 50, I draw an upside down [T]. Then notate a dot relative to the side of the field. The intersection of the T represents where the 50 meets the front sideline, relative to the front field drum major. If there's room notate a form too, arc, line, box. ----- Knowing your spot is important. There might be times where half the corps isn't there to guide on or let you know where in the drill your are. Not so much in Jr. Corps, but still. At a minimum, you'll know when you're five yards off (or more) and not spend thirty minutes debating who's more right / less wrong. Step sizes feel different on different fields, or how long the grass has gotten. So you can't always judge your show based on muscle memory alone. And if you're the point man (or woman), you only have your spot to go by. Being five yards off can really hose those behind you (the entire corps). But don't be so stubborn that you're the only one right. Get a set book of the index card type. Don't write anything important on the first couple or last couple of pages. You want it to last and not have to write out a new one every day. Wear it draped by a shoe string, or stick it in a plastic bag in your pocket. It will get wet, plan accordingly. Use a pencil, drill is more of an art than a science, things will change, plan accordingly. Do what the instructors say, even if it's wrong (unless you're using $1K+ of personal equipment and it'll get damaged). It's a learning experience for them as well as you. Your neighbor may not be as good of a marcher as you. Feel free to fudge your spot to help make them look less wrong. I generally take where my spot is, and where the form is, then half the difference if they don't agree. Depending on the skill level of the group or the difficulty of the move. Or proximity to dangerous and moving guard equipment / members.

From what I remember of the tech BITD, there was acid involved to rough up the solder surface. Rosin based is for electronics. Don't use it on horns. And of course manage heat properly. Don't over do it, round tubes will warp. And remove the valves before heating the horn. Some have PLASTIC parts on them now. Plastic + Heat == BAD... Mmmm Kay.... Even without plastic parts you don't want cheap alloy valve caps and such warping with heat. It is a lost art. Especially with a lot of the smaller chains going out of business. Shipping x2 + repair == expensive. If you can take shipping x2 out of the picture, you WIN!!! At least locally. It might not be enough business to retire on, but it should keep you out of trouble. And of course cleanliness is king. Dirt + Heat == Undo-able. And remove any tape / stickers from the horn BEFORE applying heat. <insert forest gump quote>

Do you have to own it? If it's only weekends / once a month / only summer, it might be cheaper to rent (baring theft / destruction). Rock-N-Roll rentals here in Austin do renting. Otherwise craigslist + eBay + various sound forums. Guitar Center and other options too. Are you going to need to run on battery power? Or will you always have more traditional power? Generator? Batteries plus inverter(s)? You could always check for local bar closings and stuff and score once in a while. Might be cheaper than driving halfway across the country for a pickup. Check the websites of the corps that use sound equipment. They don't always advertise on here, and may only have it listed on their corps specific website. Start with the local ones if you want to save on gas. What qualifies as a PA? Dr. Beat speaker? Or something more live performance orientated? Zoom has a 16 channel mixer / recorder (R16?). And other options. Weather proofing not included.

That's fine and all for us drumcorps vets. But not all of us got to marry our battle buddies in corps. And most of us are not as young as we used to be. Not that we'll back away from challenges, but given a choice between $100 in tickets (per attendee), $50 for a hotel, 6+ hours driving, and 100F+ for two days....... OR $10 and an air conditioned theater....... Or $50 and don't even leave the house. Or whatever that network / theater thing runs these days. The viewers / fans have MORE choices now than they did BITD.

I'll take it that YOU'LL be there then. I might actually go this year. I've planned on going a couple years now. I even bought a ticket one year, but didn't go. It always falls on THAT weekend. You know the one where you haven't had a weekend off for a while and you feel like doing nothing for a change. As far as the heat, a lot of folks fly umbrellas (not a cloud in the sky) to handle it. Being a DCI show, is that off limits? I recorded in San Antonio last memorial day (MAY) and it was around 110F (probably closer to 100F ambient, but metal bleachers + direct sunlight + no wind + it was ONLY may). The little thermometer warning icon on the camcorder was screaming at me (I didn't even know that it had one). I was only there like an hour, but didn't stick around afterwards. Drank like two gallons of liquid, but never had to use the facilities. Gotta love Texas. Each of the Texas options are different. Houston is humid and is generally -10F to -20F cooler due to being closer to the gulf. Dallas is quite hot about +10F from Austin inspite of being so far north. Austin is cool-ish and dry due to high winds a lot of the time. Although once the mercury breaks 100F we have zero wind. San Antonio on the other hand is always a good +10F over the average of the other sites. Bear in mind that there's a good 100 miles to 200 miles between cities in these parts. You shouldn't be thinking Allentown, but Winston-Salem. Roughly the same relative longitude-ness between say Dallas and San Antonio. +/- a couple, kind of hard to scale since you don't have any state lines to cross to judge progress.

As far as going to DCI shows. I generally don't anymore. When I do go, it's because I partially sponsored some kid in a group that's going to be at that show. And it's probably the only time I'll ever get to meet them in person. Maybe if there were shows within 100 miles of me, or that happened on the weekends and not on weekdays. Or if there was just more than 3 opportunities to see a show within 300 miles of me, I'd go to more shows. But generally by the time you add up the gas, tickets, and time, it's cheaper to buy the DVDs/CDs. Or to sponsor a kid for an equivalent amount of cash. It means more to them anyway. I did make an effort to return to the genre by seeing a few local DCI shows in 2002. I lived in a different location at that time. I went to one show that had last years champions and they were champions again that year. And a corps that was consistently top 6 back when I marched. Most of the rest of the lineup I didn't recognize by uniform or name. Anyway I think that the demand of todays shows detracts from todays shows. Look at me I'm an olympic sprinter, as opposed to look at me I'm a visual artist. Look at me do something almost impossible, oops I tripped hehehehe. As opposed to look at me do flawless execution, while making it look easy. Apples and oranges IMO. At that one show in question the former top 6 corps didn't even make finals that year. But still managed to put out at least twice the volume of the champion. And the champions show left me going, I can't hear them, let me count them. 1, 2, 3, .... 11, 12, .... will you guys stop moving already. 1, 2, 3, ......, 17, 18, 19, ..... scat, what, scatter drill, come on already. I give up, I'll just count them when they troop the stands. What they're not even trooping the stands? And half of that section is hauling props off the field. One guy is carrying three euphs off the field and is that baritone too, where's the players? I guess I'll just check DCP to see how many of whatevers they're actually marching. Not to say that what's out there isn't good. But there's so little of a relationship to that which I am / was familiar with that it's more frustrating than entertaining to watch in person.

It worked wonders in the Army. You never get a day off if you're always smiling. No one asks the really important questions (how can we make this better) if you never groan and growl. What other option is there anyway? Just be quiet and go away. That'll grow an activity. NOT! Hey, I see on your resume that you've worked for us before, how'd you like to work for us again? CLICK!

In the Army, woodwinds went back to the bus when it rained. Not so much a concern for the people or gear, as it is that such conditions make it so one has to repad those instruments. Too include the metal saxes. At $300 a pop to get to the point you were at, before the rain, until it rains again. For those complaining about the OT-ness for drumcorps... What happens to the synths and guitars when it rains? How about the AV gear by whomever is recording the event. Things I wish some would have spent some minimal time thinking about BEFORE it rained. Failure is NOT an option.