BRASSO

all I can think of after reading this, is that when you met your grandfather after finals in '05, it sounds like he must have been the recipient of a bad ice cube in his bourbon earlier that day to have said such a rude thing to you at that moment.

There are easily 6 years to be had for CD's on Blue Stars, Boston, Spirit and these other Corps. If you're stuck to fill out a year or two for the 6 years on these Corps, pick any years in the mid 60's for Boston,,... mid 70's for Spirit, Blue Stars ,... late 90's for Colts, BK, G-Men. It 's easy, and most of your CD customers will be happy with these inclusions from these years for these Corps.( and who knows, maybe a few pleasantly surprised and pleased with some of the older inclusions too )

None of this is new... and it's not unique to these 3 Corps either frankly. The Star of Indiana were this cute little Drum Corps out of Indiana that people loved in their first few fast rising years in the late 80's. Then they got good in the early 90's...... REAL GOOD. and once they got inside the small circle of Corps that actually could win.... and did..... then they were the recipients of the wrath from the jealous. They got LOTS of criticisms once they reached the proverbial Drum Corps Promised Land. As I said, there is nothing unusual here to see the highly successful and the high achievers in society criticized.

It's so true. The degree, intensity, and number of " criticisms " rises and falls the higher ( and lower ) one goes up and down the ladder of success...... in just about ANY endeavor, not just Drum Corps. Like I said, one would be hard pressed to find a lot of threads on here criticizing the Pioneer Drum Corps. Watch the Troopers. Everybody loved them last year. If next year the Troopers shocked the Drum Corps world and started to finish ahead of Crown, Phantom, Boston, Bluecoats, Santa Clara, Blue Stars, Cavs, Cadets, BD, etc you can bet your life they'd see a LOT more criticisms as they moved up the success ladder.

It's a non factor. The historical data does not support the position that the Blue Devils would be hurt should the season be longer. As for Boston, they extended their margin of victory at Finals this year over Phantom Regiment and Blue Stars than earlier in the season. Boston started out in their first showing this year losing to Phantom by over 6 points and lost to the Blue Stars the first two times out against them as well. But Boston seemed to peak in Indy this year. Additionally, not all Corps start out on the same date each summer, nor do they all have the same number of show competitions scheduled. Also, the staffs are not all the same each year with these Corps ( except for a couple of Corps ) and the marchers are different with lots of turnover from year to year. So if a Corps seems to peak early one year or two does not mean that's who they are. The key to doing well at Finals is a) being rested b ) having a good Finals night performance and c ) having a favorable draw on the judging panel. These 3 things far outweigh an extra week in the season which I think is essentially a non factor for all intents and purposes.

I don't care that "fans ( or marchers for that matter )of winning Corps deal with a lot of criticisms ". That's my reaction as a fan of Drum Corps in general and one not connected in any way to any of the current DCI Corps. Walmart " gets a lot of criticisms "...... The Yankees " get a lot of criticisms "..........The New England Patriots " get a lot of criticisms".........North Carolina and Duke basketball programs " get a lot of criticisms ".......... George Bush ( and now Barack Obama ) " get a lot of criticism "....... Fox News, Microsoft, Comcast, anything successful, and on and on. By contrast, few if any, criticize..... the Milwaukee Brewers...... San Diego Padres...... Minnesota Timberwolves....... Temple Owls football.... the Food Network... a Bank teller.... or the Pioneer Drum Corps..... as former President Harry Truman once quipped " if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen ".

Well of course you'd pick " C " ( ie " show wasn't Drum Corps " ). That's because you marched Cadets and that was one of the most frequent criticisms heard about the Cadets when you marched Cadets than " A " and " B " criticisms that more often were leveled at BD or the Cavs. And good grief, why would you care what criticisms you'd get marching these 3 Elite Corps ? When you put the uniform on, you realize that you have an 82 % chance of your corps finishing in the top 3 that year, and a good shot of getting a ring. Do you think the NY Yankees or their fans give a wit about the knock that they have gobs of dough to position themselves to grab the best players to position themselves to garner a title ? Winners, win.... losers make excuses, criticize, complain, etc Nothing new under the sun, here. '

I just hope his " advise "is not on how to write and spell check an enticing Madison Scouts PR release.

We all knew it was just a matter of time.

" Get off my lawn !! " - Clint Eastwood," Gran Torino "

This reminds me of the excitement when the Yankees signed Randy Johnson........... when Notre Dame signed Charlie Weis...... When Bill Parcells was lured out of retirement in 2003 to come and Coach the Dallas Cowboys...... when Rick Pitino left the NBA and signed on at Kentucky,( then Louisville ).....when Brett Favre signed with the Minnesota Vikings, and Vikings fans ran to the box office to buy tickets in droves............ or when former Syracuse and NBA great Dave Bing decided to announce he was going to run for Mayor of Detroit to turn that city around.... or when Dennis Erickson is snagged by Arizona State to work his former championship caliber coaching wonders there........... I recall old pro Steve Spurrier made the South Carolina football fans go giddy when he was announced as their Head Coach a couple of years ago...... same with Pitt football fans when they heard they had landed Dave Wannstedt from the NFL to come back and bring Pitt football back to their glory days..... or when Gary Barnett went to Colorado....., Mike Shula and Nick Saban to Alabama..... or when Shaq O' Neal and Coach Phil Jackson were snagged by the Lakers a few years back and Lakers fans thought these was the moves destined to win a Titles with Kobe Bryant , Shaq, and Jackson all working together ....... or when Johan Santana was signed in the off season, Mets fans were thinking this was sure to catapult the Mets back into the playoffs....... or when the Red Sox snagged former Cy Young winner John Smoltz.... and on and on and on......... it's just great to hear those from the past get signed for big bucks and fans go all giddy. The reaching back to the past with those who made their mark in earlier era's always works out well, and I know I'm ready to forget all the young staff and creative talent we have today for these greats from 25 years ago who think they still have their fastball, their energy, etc and still can wield their magic they had from decades ago with other organizations and will parlay this success at their new digs just as they did many years ago.

I liked the 1984 Cadets musical version of WSS so much better than this year's Cadets musical interpretation. 2009 Cadets WSS is not even close to the melodically appealing '84 version in my opinion.

INT 's Corps Song is " 15 Minutes Away " ( from Rap Group, K'naan )

I like this thread. I'm learning a lot. There is no question in my mind that for whatever reason the brass sounds of today, particularly the sopranos, sound much much brighter. I prefer the deeper, dark, edgy, tones.... even if the pitch might be slightly out of tune. I can deal with this imperfection as I prefer to have my face peeled in the loud movements, and absent such brightness where the overall brass volume seems diluted for whatever reason.

surprised some of the older vets on here havn't yet mentioned Jeff Kievit, legendary sop soloist for Hawthorne Muchachos, ( and professional concert tour trumpet player today) in opening statement for the Muchachos in '74, 75. If that didn't set the tone that this Corps came to play, and got the fans attention right from the getgo, then I don't know what does.

What faulty logic and reasoning. First of all, a single football game, is broken down to 4 quarters. The points are cumulative, and the refs are the same. It is a single event. At the end of the 4 quarters there is finality to that competitive event. As such, it seems to me there is no relationship at all between a single football game with 4 quarters, and a Drum Corps sequence of Quarters, Semi's, and Finals than span 3 days and in which there are separate judging panels, no cumulative effect, and the scores themselves have no carryover value whatsoever from one competitive show to the next. It is silly to think that a Corps defeated in a ( say ) quarterfinals or semi Finals competition can later claim that they were " undefeated " in competition that year. They can certainly make that claim, but it is of course ridiculous. A Drum Corps competition is a distinct competition. It has judges, and it is scored, and there is a winner, and there are also rans. They don't call these Prelims " exhibitions ". They are called " competitions ". And for a reason. And the fans who attended these competitions and payed to see them certainly were not under the false impression that these shows were merely exhibitions and not competitiions and therefore they wern't scored and it all didn' t matter that day or night of the competition. If the only competition that " matters " is the final one at Finals, then what the heck, these Corps only have.... what ?..... ONE competition each season ? So, as we can see, the notion that one can claim an undefeated season and have lost in competition in that season is just plain absurd.

Bravo..... well said.

I do find it surprising that after winning the DCI Championship in such dramatic fashion last year and being the toast of the Drum Corps world for that stunning achievement, that the Corps rookie base was at this talent level. Actually, in my opinion, it was not the members or the staff techs that resulted in their unexpected lower placement and scores this year, but the design team ( and guard ) that was most responsible for this surprising result after last years Title winning season.

If prelims" don't count" as " Drum Corps competitions " then they must be what....." exhibitions " ? And if they are not " competitions ", then why did the judges draw a paycheck for judging these " exhibitions " or " non competitions " ? Nobody is saying that we crown a " champion " at these Prelim Competitions either.( We don't crown a " Champion " at all the local DCI summer tour competitions either) But the notion that a Drum Corps preliminary competition with judges is not a Drum Corps competition and as such should not count in a Corps record for the season is simply ludicrous.

I agree with this. It is unequivocable. The definition of " undefeated " can't be used, if in fact a Corps was defeated in competition. It defies logic and reasoning to think one can be defeated once in competition and yet try to make a case of being " undefeated ".... OR " unbeaten ". No Can Do.

I agree. But the OP.... " TexasPRfan "... wanted to give a shout out to his favorite Corps, and he did a great job on this thread with his meaasge to the staff and members of his Corps, and I thought that was pretty cool and all as well. I certainly enjoyed Phantom Regiment musically this year, and as he said, the members gave it their all, and for that, they should be very proud.

Well, how can one determine if they agreed or not with the judges in Indy for that 12th spot, if they wern't in Indy to see any of these 3 Corps perform in competition ?

I can't vote on this. I wasn't at Indy. I can't imagine voting for which of these 3 Corps deserved 12th place when I didn't see a single one of them in Indy. And I can't imagine voting for one of these Corps at Indy based upon what they did when I saw them earlier in the season. Those who were not in Indy for Finals Week, but voted in this poll anyway, are telling us which of these three Corps they liked during the season, not which one " deserved 12th " based upon anything they did or did not do in Indy during Finals Week.

If it was a sanctioned competition in which there were judges judging the competition, and a Corps did not win that competition, they can not make a claim as being " undefeated " for that season. Since when did Prelims not count ? Of course they count. Some Corps never even get to Finals because of how they did in the Prelims competition. As for a " tie ',... technically, I would put such a Corps in the " undefeated " category. Such a Corps was in fact, not defeated. However, one now is compelled to weigh this tie in comparison with other " undefeated " season Corps, that had no such " tie " in their season.

Agree. Colts. There was LOTS of talk on here re. some of these other Corps, but the Colts got caught up in the Troopers quest, and got lost in the process it seems to me. They had one of the best ballads this year, and a good soloist, and overall seemed underrated. Plus, it's tough to miss Finals by such a small margin, when earlier in the season they appeared to have a Finals spot secured. Some I talked with who were at Finals thought they gave an inspired performance in the Semi's and had them in by the slightest of margins over Troop. The Colts get my vote here.