Geneva

I agree. The evening gowns, long white gloves, and the balloon release on the fat jazz chord was sheer elegance of design. I loved it! It was a timeless classic.

I appreciate the comments made here, and in the hope of stimulating more discussion I will state my opinions. By the way, the poll (an unfortunate double post) can be found at http://www.drumcorpsplanet.org/forums//ind...6&mode=show&st= Please cast your vote. Yes, I do believe that DCI has caused a decrease in the number of competing junior corps, though certainly this was an indirect and unintended result. I don't think this is surprising since DCI was formed by corps at the top of the game to directly address the needs of the corps at that echelon of success. But while furthering the cause of many (but perhaps not even a majority) of these corps, it resulted in a playing field so uneven that over the course of several years only the best organized units could survive. Let me try to get specific about some of these factors...touring, pit evolution, loss of a local basis as a civic organization. Touring-the change from drum corps as a weekend performance activity to a seven day a week activity during the summer was completely out of the question for most competitive drum corps of the 70's. Most kids wanted and needed to work a summer job and the average kid in drum corps then probably wasn't looking for an activity with that type of time committment requirement. Touring just wasn't going to happen for most of these corps. Relatively quickly it became apparent that most drum corps could never hope to attain national caliber status. This aspiration was something which the more level playing field of old drum corps made possible. Drum corps, being the competitive activity which it is, was left with a situation of haves and have-nots. Combine this with a dramatic loss of local/regional competitions as the old circuit stucture broke down and the foundation of the larger activity began to disintegrate. The result was that the best players in each unit saw no hope or sense in staying in local units and started going to the nearest bigger and better corps that at least had a hope of competitve success in this higher stakes form of the activity. Pit Evolution-In my estimation, one of the single most cost inflationery equipment needs brought to the activity with DCI. This made new start ups prohibitively expensive for the average local civic organization. This was certainly transforming to the art form, but not necessarily better, just different. In the big picture, did the damage done to new start-ups justify this? Loss of a local basis as a civic organization-As drum corps became a touring, high-cost activity with the demand for higher performance levels, the result was that organizations had to seek out a membership base from an ever increasing radius. No longer were corps looked upon as a community resource and achievement. Communities lost their incentive to initiate and support these units further reducing the numbers of corps. Granted the dynamics of corps foldings are multi-factorial, but I believe that the above cited items, while not all-inclusive, were certainly important secondary effects of the formation of DCI. I also feel that DCI was not paying attention to this important side effect of its organiztion, at least in its early days. Things may have changed at this late stage with the development over the years of division II and III as the ascension of Blue Stars and the recovery of Orlando Magic may indicate. I don't profess to be knowledgeable in that arena, but would appreciate enlightment. Well, just my point of view. I welcome yours.

In 1970 and 1971 the Appleknockers and the Milford (CT) Shoreliners were very close. In 1971 we moved past the Shoreliners. They weren't happy and let us know it!

Sorry, I wanted this to be posted as a poll with commentary. I am curious as to the consensus out there as to whether DCI has had an effect on the number of competing junior corps. I believe it is quite clear that DCI has created an environment which has lead to better quality corps, but there are also far fewer corps today than in the pre-DCI era. Is DCI responsible for this or was this an inevitability for reasons beyond DCI's control? I have my opinions, but I will not lay my cards on the table until the discussion has unfolded for a while. Have at it!

I am curious as to the consensus out there as to whether DCI has had an effect on the number of competing junior corps. I believe it is quite clear that DCI has created an environment which has lead to better quality corps, but there are also far fewer corps today than in the pre-DCI era. Is DCI responsible for this or was this an inevitability for reasons beyond DCI's control? I have my opinions, but I will not lay my cards on the table until the discussion has unfolded for a while. Have at it!

My vote goes to Kanstul, also. I have played their 3 valve G and liked the way it responded and sounded...rather like a cornet. I also loved the Olds Ultratones. I played a valve/rotor soprano in the day. Interesting to note Zig is the common thread there. And finally, I purchased a Kanstul 1600 "Wayne Bergeron" model trumpet in August after a marathon blinded comparison session against at least twenty other trumpets. Wonderful instrument! It is helping me to become a better player.

Ron, Interesting about your mention of Wayne Bergeron and the Lynnwood Diplomats. Do you know anything about his later association with Kanstul? I recently purchased a Kanstul 1600 "Wayne Bergeron" model trumpet (while at DCI this summer in Boston). It is a sweet instrument which I am enjoying playing.

As has been touched on by several people, I agree that drum corps' move away from a local membership base coincided with the formation of DCI and accelerated throughout the 70's. This coincided with the disintegration of regional circuits and the folding of many smaller corps which couldn't keep up with the financial stresses of touring and expanded instrumentation and costuming costs. At the same time the type of kid in drum corps was changing to those with more serious interests in the performing arts and the focus of these organizations was changing from that of being a local civic organization to being a performance vehicle for kids with pre-existing performing arts backgrounds willing to travel great distances to find the certain group which they were interested in. The corps were no longer a training ground for novices as they once had been. My competitive years were from 1966-74. In the Appleknockers the vast majority of members came from within a half hour's drive. There were rare members who traveled 40-100 miles. Flying?...Nope. By 1974 in the Purple Lancers, members were starting to leave their local corps and the radius had expanded to an hour or two's drive although I still don't recall members traveling from other parts of the country.

You have your facts straight, Ironlips. Thanks for the kind words. It was a great final year for me in the activity. The icing on the cake! I have lots of great memories. If you have not read it, check out my reminiscence of the 1974 season at http://www.dci.org/news/news.cfm?news_id=9...9d-6a70d69dbf5a Congratulations to you and Ace on your Hall of Fame honors and your recent DCA I&E exploits. Ken always speaks highly of you.

Sigh, just another neat thing about old drum corps that probably will never be seen again.

Kevin, your post about your experience in Buffalo saddened me. It brought back memories of a drum corps experience I had there many years ago (1967 to be exact). My corps was excited to be playing in the big city venue of old War Memorial Stadium (former home of the Buffalo Bills, now demolished) that year at the state American Legion championships. Drum corps was probably at its peak from the standpoint of numbers of units competing and the state was well represented from all its regions with St. Joe's of Batavia facing a stiff challenge by the Bronx Kingsmen. I can remember sitting in the stands at prelims and being wowed by some of the sounds from corps like the Utica Yankees, Kingsmen, St. Joe's Patron Cadets, Carter Cadets, and the Minisink Warriors. But I stray from my point...The stadium was located in a section of town which was obviously quite poor and the kids of the 'hood were out in full force "interacting" with the visiting units and fans. I had excitedly called my parents to invite them to see us compete in the "big time" against these impressive units. So they drove in from our home about 100 miles from Buffalo only to be accosted by the locals as soon as they disembarked for $10 to "protect" your car. Well, other than that, nothing bad actually transpired. It was one of the eye-opening experiences for a kid from a small town to see some of these realities of life and I thank my drum corps days for this education. Without the opportunities that drum corps travel, hard-work, and performance afforded me, I don't know where I would have received some of these valuable life lessons (at least at such a young age) without feeling directly threatened myself. It is sad, though, to ponder that despite the many changes for the better in Buffalo (cleaner air, urban renewal and lakefront development), some of the ills are still alive perhaps in the children (or grand children!) of the children of my youth. In Buffalo's defense, I am sure that this is not unique, but rather a microcosm of American urban life. Kevin, enjoy your years of drum corps performance and keep your mind open as it sounds like you are.

I seem to remember that people were saying the same thing about his support for amplification a few years back. I wouldn't be too smug. Personally, I find the whole idea undesireable and contrary to the spirit and tradition of the activity...and downright scarey that a man with Hopkin's influence is floating the idea.

Jeff's sound always blew us mere mortal leads away. It sounded as if his horn was twice the size of our instruments! He definitely stood out on the field.

1988 Blue Devils get my vote as well!

I agree that 2000 Devils had a very mature and sophisticated brass sound. I especially like the fullness of the soprano sound. It really lends one the impression of a very talented groups of players. I would have to say, however, that I was underwhelmed by the book. It was heavily percussive sounding and a little melodically weak for my tastes.

Not so sure about Utica. I never remember them wearing a uni with the the parallel horizontal lines on the front of the jacket which I think of as being the essence of the cadet style. In the early years they wore satin tops then later a unique design jacket with V lines on the front.

There you have it. Thanks for the clarification. :P

1989... available from DCI on the "Countdown 2005" DVD.

I could be wrong about the year, but I scanned through my tape of the 1987 broadcast and I didn't catch that mention.

Hi Mark, Nice to see that you are still involved in the activity. Did you play mellophone with Auburn? In case you missed it I wrote a reminiscence of the 1974 Purple Lancers for Fanfare on DCI.org http://www.dci.org/news/news.cfm?news_id=9...9d-6a70d69dbf5a

I believe he added that was his top drum corps show UNTIL 1989 SCV.

most exciting moment of that show? the big chord at the end of the ballad. I think that's the best explanation of why cavaliers' brass doesn't belong to this planet. that brass-only fermato... priceless. Definitely a huge moment...like an organ on steroids!

I agree with you both to some extent. I think this very much becomes a philosophical argument about what drum corps is or should be. While I felt that Frameworks was a superb creation, I also agree that it was perhaps a little too fluid and seamless for my tastes in drum corps. I was fascinated by the singularity of the music and visuals such that neither could stand alone. The total certainly was greater than the sum of the parts in my mind. But would I rate it as one of the greatest drum corps shows? Not in my mind since I look for drum corps to make me soar on a more visceral level. That is what drum corps in its ultimately successful moments represents to me, a communication of excitement coupled with impact. The other elements are nice, but I don't go to a drum corps show seeking them. I wouldn't be satisfied if all drum corps shows were like Frameworks.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet, so I will. 1983 Suncoast Sound's "Time Out"!! Wow, the rapid fire syncopated lines just blow my mind. Were they actually marching to that?

Wow, this is stunning news! I sincerely hope that your reorganization is successful and you come back stronger than ever. For me, since first seeing you at a pre-nationals show in NYC in 1966, my eyes were opened to the possibilities inherent in marching perfection.