charlie1223

The nature of dancing and art is compulsory. And I'm not sure what would have to occur programmatically that would make you feel those elements weren't compulsory. I'm sure that if we looked at some of your favorite shows we could analyze how compulsory certain elements were for the time period it was in.

They do in some cases. To me, paying to perform in a DCI corps seems acceptable, but paying to operate the sound board for the corps doesn't. I don't know why I feel that way but it would feel like they were taking advantage of the kid who got chosen to do sound. I would think that you would feel the same way if you are also work in sound engineering.

Your point, that bluecoats, crown etc. are doing things that originated from some other corps at some other time is just a pointless point. That's what I'm saying. It discredits what corps are doing on the field and makes it impossible for them to own what they do because everything on this planet creatively has its origination, directly or indirectly, from something else. You need to lighten up and stop over analyzing where an idea came from and "who did it first" and appreciate the variety and styles that corps have and eventually adopt to make it their own. The list you generated is SO GENERAL you would make it seem that everything that can be creatively done in drum corps has already been done! Having narration, hype effects, props, etc. is not in its self the single idea which once done is no longer new. All other uses of narration, hype effects, props etc. are not automatically derivative of the first. That line of thinking is recklessly general for no purpose. Everything you suggest is just in poor taste to the creative process. Bluecoats are owning their show, their style, their GE effects, and pitch bend and making it their own there by making it new and different. That's good enough and doesn't need dismantling by someone who wants to analyze the derivative nature of creativity and design in the most general and arbitrary way possible. And if OP wants to complain about Crown for their body movement telling him to not because "they didn't start it" just doesn't make any sense. How would that convince him to stop complaining about Crown?

So the alternative you want would have someone pay 3000 dollars to operate a sound board while wearing a corps uniform? And maybe hold interviews so they can find the best person that wants to pay 3000 dollars to operate a sound board? Atleast for the normal member there is an expectation to perform and be taught by world class staff members... that won't exactly happen as a sound engineer member. The system to have the sound engineer as non paying member is the best option. a hired gun for adjudicated performances is an interesting perspective however to me it is of no consequence. While much rides on the sound engineer during a performance, it leads to a better and more pleasurable experience for the members and audience members for him to be there and it is a logistical necessity to produce a DCI drum corps performance. But I am beyond the rose colored vision that judges only judge the members on the field. They judge arrangements, they judge cohesion, they judge technique, they judge sound, they judge balance, they judge design choices, they judge the entire corps. And everything on that field directly or indirectly is made possible by non-corps members. The food crew (members need energy to perform!), the techs, the prop creators, the sound engineers, the instrument manufacturers, the uniform makers, etc. To think that the sound guy is the "only" non-member influencing a performance is a folly. Entire corps organizations are judged on that field and that is 100% OKAY! It's a group effort that goes even beyond the members themselves and it shows that drum corps is even more of a wonderful group activity than it ever was before.

Ah yes, the first ever "hype moment" as performed by BD. What a moment it was. Oh, and that novelty gag! No other gag will ever be as novel! Look, I get what you're trying to say but at some point you need to just appreciate a show for what it's bringing to the table. I guess you're angry when people attribute things to Crown instead of BD/Cadets? But its not like once you've seen one "mass-duplicated props" once you've seen all "mass-duplicated props". Everything is just a variation of something else until its new enough to be called innovative or different. Even if we went down that list and found which moments (for you) were the original instance of each in drum corps, I'm sure you would find where it was derived from and find that the innovation was a variation of something that happened before. Crown is doing a lot of really great things differently, and to discredit it as a derivative of what another corps did is just really pointless. They can own what they do and make it their own thing.

You're probably getting me confused with someone else's opinions. But really I do agree with you, marching and playing at the same time was an innovation years ago and now everyone seems to be doing it.

Just remember great design means nothing without great execution. And great execution with poor design sounds like a terrible experience for members and the audience. Better design begets better execution which results in better placement. There have been very well design shows that didn't have the talent to execute at the highest level and it pretty much stands that the best designed shows are not always the ones that win. I think the sheer number of exceptions to "better design = better placement" probably means that its not simply design that wins you a championship. And I think we should all be comfortable with the fact that a combination of great design and great execution is necessary for better placement. And I'm pretty comfortable saying that a DCI world champion wasn't crowned based on the content of their sampler.

While there are experienced/ pro audio guys setting up the equipment and consulting the corps, the guy operating the board every day, responsible for its maintenance and troubleshooting errors may not be. In my experience the guy operating the board is a college student or recent college grad that is getting a lot of hands on experience on sound engineering. yeah, he may not be a "member" but it doesn't matter. It was an audio student who is operating the board and gaining a great educational experience. This may not be true for all corps but im wondering why you would assume that an audio student is NOT already running the board? Or do you actually know the makeup of all the staff members of a corps? And im wondering why you would find this to be your "truly large scale issue" if you don't know how each corps actually does it? Or is the whole not a member thing really that troubling for you?

How exactly is everyone clearly imitating BD and Cadets?

can they fix this??

He doesn't realize that by responding to your comment with some witty insult he is no different from the progressives he mocks :D and the only thing that this reveals is that we ALL get a our panties in a bunch over something.

Someone needs to enlighten pea-brained dinosaurs even if it means putting their lattes down! :P But maybe their sternness evaporates when they log onto this forum because half of the topics are started by complainers...

Synth players ARE as proficient with their instrument as the brass players are. If they weren't they wouldn't be playing synth in a drum corps. How can you insinuate that they aren't? And now I remember we have debated about this before in the past, so no need to beat a dead horse. But here's an example of what world class synth parts are like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQta79VQyrY

Design-wise they are trying to do long phrases. Longer musical phrases, longer visual developments and effects that last longer than an instant. That's definitely different that the shows above them that are more about the moment to moment effects and quickly switching focus and having more variety in a shorter amount of time. The problem is they haven't convinced the judges to pay attention for that long. The second a judge says "this is still going on?", "when will they move on" then its concerning.

If you want to know the truth... Crown told me they love when you complain online so much they dedicated their entire pre-show body movement to you. The drumline even has a vocal "c - train - 0 - 8" right before they plie. Doesn't seem right, but just wanted to let you know that you hit it right on the nose... They absolutely wanted to get you angry and they are very happy with the result. #### kids!

I think what you're saying about synth players is more insulting than anything else. It doesn't matter how complicated the synth parts are they ALWAYS require a high level of musicianship and performance quality to execute precisely every time. Not every synth player is a virtuoso but it doesn't mean they aren't talented or that what they are doing doesn't require skill! Designers since the beginning have been an integral part of the activity. And how a show is designed, how the parts are written, are always on display and really the only reason we enjoy a performance. If the design is bad, the kids would not be able to show off anything so I don't see how bashing the designers gets your point across. The designers have been and will always be the most important element to getting the performers to show-off their skills in DCI. Electronics are not just about dynamic manipulation. They also dramatically change the kind of sound qualities that are heard from the pit. Setting one level for an entire show would NOT allow for the entire dynamic and textual opportunities of the pit to be heard or be in balance with the rest of the corps. The electronics facilitate greater musicianship and dynamic control and are NOT used as a "crutch" for lazy designers/performers. If a pit does not have good balance/dynamics/touch no amount of amplification/electronic adjustments will make them sound better. Maybe you don't understand that performers actually benefit from electronics and allow for them to TRULY show their stuff. And its surprising how you use Crown 2011 as a positive example of electronics enabling a performer while at the same time suggesting that electronics inhibit the performer...

I'm not surprised by crown. If your going to do a brass book as challenging as that the design needs to be flawless and it's not.

I just remember that my tastes are better than everyone else's and then I don't care what other people say. :D

Whoa, the changes to the cumber buns made a bigger difference than I anticipated. They look fantastic!!!!

Come now, Bluecoats have one of the best shows out there! We all love them and its ok to poke some fun.

dude, get a life.

I don't think they are unamped... I've heard that they are amplified with wireless mics but I haven't seen it live so I'm not sure.