Tim K

Why do drum corps need to have woodwinds? The difference between a wind ensemble and an orchestra is strings. Jazz bands usually do not include flutes or clarinets. Different musical groups sue different instrumentations. However, one of the challenges of drum corps to master is creating a sound using all brass rather than strings and woodwinds. In DCI's early days they had a drill team division and color guard competitions. WGI took over the guard shows. There was also talk of a band division which may just have been et wishful thinking of the Boston area CYO bands that were losing members to drum corps. Personally if woodwinds would have enhanced drum corps shows, they would have been included long ago. Also, woodwinds would not allow for the uniform look that the all silver plated brass instruments in use today, so it would be a visual problem.

I will believe that you never took pot shots of the younger generation because I am the same way and we're probably close in age. However, I can still remember all the comments regarding the Bridgemen at CYO Nationals in 1976 the year of their overhaul. I also remember the outcry when Phantom opened with Stravinsky in 1978. I also recall all kinds of letter to the editor of DCN. I remember thinking the complainers were old cranks, now I know they were probably no older than I am today (50). Today, the concerns are not just generational changes as in the past. People see the activity slipping away. This, too is not new. Madison's 1985 show as well as SCV's uniform change of same year were controversial and not "drum corps." Today both shows are classic "old school." For me, the big difference is that kids no longer grow up in drum corps. Chances are most people who marched in the 70's and 80's were in a feeder corps growing up and either graduated to the upper corps or marched with a smaller corps and auditioned for a more competitive corps. I grew up in the Boston area and we had the CYO circuit that included drum corps, drill teams, and bands. Most were founded by a handful of people, shared instructors and arrangers, and created a certain culture. this is lost and there's no way we can bring it back. It's not a criticism of kids who march today. They can't participate in what no longer exists.Also, there are reportedly judges who have never marched and show designers who never marched. All of these things do make a difference. However one thing has not changed. I speak with kids who march today and they still work as hard, are still as dedicated, and are incredibly talented. That's what I try and remember when a show is not to my liking.

First of all, I was in Lawrence and Allentown and they complained at both shows about Madison's nostalgic and stale shows--by constant standing ovations! We must attend the same shows. Second anyone who complains about nostalgia is wrong about this show. I firsts started following drum corps in 1975 and I do not recall Madison ever playing "You'll Never Walk Alone" during the DCI era and from what I can see, it was last performed in competition in 1971. So anyone 50 or younger probably does not remember it being performed. There's no way back in the day they were allowed to sing, so the arrangement is totally new. All the other show material is new original, and effective. I will have to say that I was disappointed with Madison's placement last evening. I am a BAC fan, and I thought BAC's show was phenomenal last night, so I am biased, but Madison moved me once again. I do not think either Madison or BAC should have placed behind Cavies. However, since this is a Madison thread, I won't say which of the two I would have put in third place. However, as long as Madison or BAC is in the top 7 at finals, I'll be satisfied. Personally, I think this is Madison's best show since 1999, which is one of my two favorite Madison shows, the other being 1985. Oh wait, that includes Gershwina nd Slaughter, I guess I'm being too nostalgic.

Just got in from a great. iChat of drum corps, though I was somewhat surprised by some results. Pioneer: has a show that suits them well, but not as Celtic as in the past. I thought the show was cleaner than last year's show. Great effort. Cascades: their small size is hurting them though I will have to say I'm impressed by their effort. Oregon crusaders: had equipment issues which may have given them a bit of an off night. This is also their first year in WC, which is a whole different world for them. Jersey Surf:I was both impressed and entertained. The how is cleaner and they had a good impact this evening.The crowd loved "Aretha" Pacific Crest:the first show to fill the stadium with sound, audience hit. Crossmen demonstrated they have very intention of being a finalist again. Saw it last Thursday evening and could see significant improvement. Blue knights what a difference a year makes! The show is easier to follow and they have a good guard and horn line. Madison was robbed a bit tonight, should have been no lower than 4th. Second only to Crown for audience support. Cavaliers I am not sure how Cavies passed Madison or BAC. The uniform change is too visible and not very clean. Same could be said when flags are tossed at marching members. It looks somewhat sloppy. BAC: easily their best show this year.I expected 4th, perhaps 3rd. Crown: great how, i did notice a few s all few few small errors. Crown's show really draws the audience into their show. I thought it was their night but judges didn't. Bd I liked "rewrite of Spring" better than expected, crowd response poor. Just some thoughts, now it's off to bed

So maybe it should be called tour of one champion, three former champs, one former champ who did not place in the top seven, a potential soon to be champ, and an underrated favorite?

I enjoyed Allentown night 1, though I was a bit disappointed that my ticket said 7 PM and the show started at 6:30, however I hit traffic at the Tappanzee Bridge and again in Pennsylvania (I travelled from the Boston area), so I would not have arrived earlier but I'm the type who wants to be present fro everything from "The national Anthem" to hearing the dismissal of the drum majors. I'll just comment on the corps I saw the full show. Colts: Great show, deserved a better score. I love the new uniforms and the sound just put me In the mood for the evening. Spirit: I loved the show. I would agree with the score but not the placement. They've added quite a bit as the summer has progressed. I love the bar scene and it come across better than earlier in the season. Blue Stars: First time seeing the show live, it is stronger than last year and has some fantastic guard work but I'm not sure I thought they were better than Spirit, however when the scores are so close it's almost quibbling to say which corps is better. For me, Spirit drew me into the show a bit more than Blue Stars. SCV: Thought they had it tonight. Easily the crowd pleaser of the evening. They are edging very close to Cadets. Phantom: I believe their first 90 of the season, well deserved. I haven't seen them live since July 5th, the show is electric and as I've said in other posts, "Enigma Variations" is my favorite arrangement of the season. Bluecoats: Great show. Critics have said the show has gotten a but static, but anyone who says this was not at this evening's show. Note to Bluecoats staff: while this has nothing to do with Bluecoats performance, they filled Yocco's and the convenience store next door. your marching members dressed in Bluecoats attire were polite, friendly, and represented your corps well. Cadets: I thought they got off to a slow start, but it was momentary and they more than made up for it with dome great moments. I was sitting in the Cadets section, and the crowd was ecstatic from the first note to the last. I thought last night's East Coast Classic was a better show, but this was still an exemplary job. They do have to watch out for SCV and should feel SCV's score this evening is too close for comfort, but no doubt George and company already know this. Tomorrow should be exciting. Crown and BD could be interesting given their back and forth to date and how Madison, BAC, Cavies, and BK will place could also be exciting. There's also a bit of excitement brewing between Cascades and Pioneer.. BTW: People must have complained about the time on they tickets--tomorrow's show will start at 7 PM as the ticket states.

When BD did jazz shows, the crowds in the stands went wild. They were a competitive powerhouse but also a crowd favorite. Their newer shows do not elicit the same response. As an example I am reminded of the response of "MY Spanish Heart " at finals in 94 as compared to last year's "Cabaret Voltaire." I agree that Crown is less defined by a style though they do have a distinct sound. Regarding Spirit returning to its roots, for me their roots would be the sound, not the show style, at least in my opinion. As to whether "returning to their roots" works for Spirit, we'll have to see how they make out in Indy. I enjoy their show, but Blue Stars and Crossmen seem to be getting too close for comfort and I think that Pacific Crest, Troopers, and Colts still have some energy and could make things interesting. If Spirit makes finals for a third year in a row, and they are still in my list though not as rock solid as in June, returning to their roots has worked, but if this is the case, this winter's focus will have to be not making finals, but moving up a bit to where BAC, Madison, Cavies and BK are battling things out.

I think that what you refer to as "blue collar/kids of the street" was true of drum corps, but I'm thinking that was more the case in the 50's and 60's and less the case in 1990 when the OP marched, and I'm not sure it was ever true of Spirit of Atlanta who first marched in 1977. I can recall the host of the PBS broadcast of 1976 or 77 saying most of the kids who marched were in college and more than half were music majors. By the late 70's most of the Top 25 had six figure budgets. While socio-economic factors may influence exposure to music, it's not a determination of talent. A young person from a lower income background can have just as much talent as someone from means. The talent levels began to increase when corps began recruiting outside their locales. This goes back to the early DCI, if not pre-DCI era. One of the major critiques of 27th Lancers locally in the mid 1970's concerned "out of state" kids which was not the case with BAC. I can't recall whether North Star had more local than out of state members. Now people will joke that BAC should call itself the Florida Crusaders. Regarding Cadets, I know many people will say that they survived by loading up the vans in 1981. Another popular theory is that that George Zingali and Peggy Twiggs and other 27th staff leaving 27th and joining Garfield's staff was a key factor. Along with them went many talented members of 27th who marched in 1980 and 81. ,

I love Yocco's. Heard more corps gossip and tidbits there than anywhere else. The food's probably bad for you and your doctor will yell at you about cholesterol, fatty foods, and the like if he/she finds out you've eaten there, but it's enjoyable.

I have wondered whether finals, rather than Big, Loud, and Live should be shown in movie theaters. Some have argued that theaters would not give up a Saturday for such a venture, and perhaps they are correct but the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts live on Saturdays, usually in the afternoon, but occasionally at night. Now I will admit that The Metropolitan Opera has more star power and is a larger venture than DCI, and it could be an apples and oranges comparison, but I would think that of DCI marketed itself in key places, key places being areas where there is close attention paid to the arts in the schools, particularly bands and student orchestras, as well as the old traditional strong holds of drum corps--Massachusetts, New Jersey, and parts of the Midwest, I would think there could be a sizable audience.

Why should Brasso make the trip into Boston to go to Arch Street to light a candle? Since he'll probably be in Lawrence on Thursday he can light a candle at a church where the pastor is a drum corps fanatic and to boot, wants to see Crown over BD. The church would only be a ten minute ride north of the stadium with ample free parking whereas in Boston, it's about $20 per hour to park. Of course the pastor of that parish is heading to Allentown and Indy for his vacation, so I suppose he can't make sure the candle stays lit.

While I'm sure that most of the discussion regarding the Salem, VA show will focus on Crown defeating Blue Devils with what I believe is the highest score of the season thus far, and I'm sure the discussions will be heated, but BAC earned its highest score to date and that deserves mention. Congrats!!!

Well said. I will not be booing of BD wins, but I am still holding out for Crown. For one thing, Crown's show has more of an emotional impact, at least as far as Fan Network performances are concerned, and I can't wait to see them live in Allentown. I know I will have to see BD live to really analyze their show, and I do know that my computer has its limitations, so seeing them live will be a whole different experience, but while I will no doubt objectively appreciate the talent of BD, I don't think it will pull me in the way I anticipate Crown's show will. That to me is what is missing from some of BD's recent shows. Yes they are still cutting edge, yes their shows are difficult to perform, but for me at least, something is missing.

1994 DCI Championship in Foxboro. A close friend of mine has two younger brothers who are about ten years younger than he is. He was home from college for the summer and started dating. He was about 19 or 20 at the time so he didn't have a curfew. Naturally since the younger brothers were only about 10 and 11, they did not think it was fair. The older brother was supposed to attend DCI with me, but he had to work and the younger brothers begged me to take them, so I did. paid $80 for each ticket, fed them dinner, got them snacks and souvenirs and they were bored stiff. There were great shows that year: BD "My Spanish Heart," Glassmen played Moody Blues tunes, Colts had an audience friendly show, Madison played "Malaga" and Phantom "Claire de Lune." I later learned the only reason they went was because they knew it would go late at night and they wanted t get home later than their brother! I did get my revenge, without knowing it. I got so excited with "Once more in 94" by 27th Lancers I embarrassed them. They still remember that part today. All three attended another show with me in 1999 at manning Bowl in Lynn. That was the year of Madison playing "Jesus Christ Superstar" at a show hosted by BAC the year it was pretty certain they would make finals which they did. They are now semi-regulars at drum corps shows.

I don't recall Raiders having financial issues last year though with all the financial issues that happened last summer, I may have forgotten. Jersey Surf had a fuel fundraiser that some claimed was rescue and of course there was a great deal of back and forth regarding Teal Sound. I know Raiders did make it as far as Indy. From what I can see they run a rather barebones operation without a lot of frills. If people can donate, they should since they are a worthwhile organization. While I know we cannot all give to every corps, I would love to know what percentage of drum corps fans donate to their favorite corps. I'm guessing that the number is not huge. If we want to keep drum corps alive, we have to support the activity, especially the Open Class corps and some of the World Class corps that cannot rely on souvenir sales or a large alumni base.

I'm not sure if the Commandant's Own will be at finals this year, but we may need them if there's a tie at the top position. If you thought there was pandemonium when there were some ties at the top (think 1996 BD/Phantom or Cavies/Cadets 2000), if it's Cadets and Crown, we may need some police officers with billy-clubs. If it's Crown and BD, the Commandant's Own, along with the Hellcats, all the members of the armed forces, and police in full riot gear will be needed to keep the peace!

I'm not certain of the stats, but I was told by some people who were at one of the winter camps that there was a great deal of young talent to be developed, and that some of the younger members were among the most talented. Now I was not given any numbers, and I'm not sure how "inside" the people at the camp were, and my speculation that they look young may be due more to my getting older and the corps appearing younger, but even so, 32 age outs is not a huge number. If anything it seems average fro a top 12 corps.

As you know as well as I do in Boston there's an unofficial motto "There's always next year" regarding the Red Sox, and perhaps some are saying that for BAC. They have the talent and much of it is young talent, and since BAC has a good retention rate, this is certainly a possibility. However, I seem to remember in 2004 there was a lot of potential Red Sox talent, people didn't quite expect a World Series title, but after a disastrous three games against the Yankees, a surprising game 4 victory led to three more wins and a sweep of the World Series. So I'm hoping for a similar scenario for BAC, with no recruitment problems next year.:thumbup:/>/>/> BTW: I'll settle for a top 7 placement, it doesn't have to be a title--yet!

It is too early to begin looking at next year since the story of this year is hardly over. First, Blue Devils have not yet won finals, so predicting the demise of Crown is a bit of a stretch, also deciding Cadets will beat Crown is not a forgone conclusion. That being said, last night's point spread between Blue Devils and Crown and the closeness in cores between Crown and Cadets does make it quite possible Blue Devils will win and Cadets will top Crown, but I'm thinking there will be another turn of events between now and finals. My guess is regardless of who wins this year, recruitment will not be a problem for BD, Crown, or Cadets. I'm also not sure that if Crown does not win it all this year, problems are in store for the future. Cavaliers had seven years of top 5 placements before their fist championship, including two consecutive years as runners-up. Cadets have placed in the Top 7 since 1981 but's it's been a rollercoaster ride going from 1st to 5th, 4th to 1st, 1st to 4th, etc. Crown does not have to win this year to have a future, but if they should loose due to percussion issues, they could face challenges since it's not a new issue and the problem is not the talent of the performers. I expected that Crossmen would have a much better season this year based on last year's placement, but they are in the same place as last year at this time. I expected that Troopers might have some challenges this year based on last year and thought it would be two or three years before Blue Stars would even be in contention of placing in finals. I based this conclusion on placement last year and potential recruitment. I think I'm a little bit wrong. It's a good thing I'm not a betting man (although winning a scratch card last year did pay for my Indy tickets, so maybe I should bet).

Thanks for the correction. I forgot about Little Rock. As far as the other poster who mentioned that point spread and order of appearance was not in BK's favor, considering there was a 1.5 point spread in BK's favor in San Antonio, that is improvement. My guess is that they will be closer to Cavies on Sunday. I've seen things on the BAC website about an Atlanta Alum reunion. Lot's of support can't hurt.

I'm still holding out hope they will place in the Top 7, though I know the competition will be steep, especially with Madison. While I'm still holding out hope, I will be more confident if they can at least pass BK ASAP which I hope will be in Huntsville or Atlanta.

1. BAC: This show is better than most people seem to think, and I have a lot of respect for what the corps is trying to accomplish. 2. Madison: Loving a Madison Scouts show never needs an justification. 3. Troopers: If Madison and BAC are on my list, Troopers have to be on the list too, and this year for good reason. Others: I know I will fall in love with SCV's show when I see it live, and the same holds true for Crown. PR and Bluecoats have great moments and "Enigma Variations" is already my favorite arrangement. Also, for pure enjoyment I love Surf.

Yes, Surf changed their style of show last year, or as some have noted, returned to their Open Class days when they could have some original and entertaining shows. They have not changed their goal of providing a quality drum corps experience to kids who really want to be in drum corps. I also have to come to their defense in that they were "bad" in the past. Now if you mean "bad" as in good, I'll agree, but if you are using bad as lousy, I'd have to disagree. Their shows could be generic, but I never got the impression the marching members gave anything less than their best.

Can't or won't? There's a difference. It is possible that a top 3 corps could have an off night and SCV has the best show of the season. It happens. This time last year, up until Allentown, no one expected Phantom to be in the Top 3 at finals, Cadets were a solid 3rd place candidate, but it happened. Also, it was not a matter of peaking as far as Cadets are concerned. They did have good shows in Indy but the fact of eth matter is Phantom surged. Cadets, BD, and Crown have been closer score wise this year and the victories have been hard fought, so while a top 3 placement is not impossible, it is unlikely. However, what I think has happened is people are expecting that a show similar to 1988 or 89 will have similar results, but "Miss Saigon" was similar and it only placed 4th.

1. I know my choice for first place will be an east way out answer, but I am going to say it's a tie between 27th Lancers and Boston Crusaders. 27th produced some of my all time favorite shows and I loved hat color guard. BAC also had great shows and musical selections and I loved their pluck in the lean years. Today their shows are still among my favorites and I have a great deal of respect for the Boston Crusader organization. 2. Phantom Regiment: As a classical music love and opera buff, I appreciate PR's approach to their music and how they so often follow the composer's intentions in their arrangements. They too have a phenomenal guard. 3. Madison Scouts: I love watching my DVD's from 1974 to 2012. I'm already looking forward to adding 2013 to my collection. If I'm in the mood for a serious show, a whimsical show, a nostalgic show, or simply a blowout show, chances are I can find a Madison show that will satisfy mood. Also, I think all drum corps fans need to be blown away by sheer volume from time to time and Madison never disappoints. Honorable mentions: Kilties, SCV, Troopers, Blue Stars (back in the day), Bridgemen, and North Star. The corps most likely to win a top three spot: Carolina Crown.