Rifuarian

I was disappointed when SCV chose to play Appalachian Spring, but I'm so so glad they proved me wrong. What a beautiful, refined show, restrained show . . not boring at all, in my opinion. I'm glad they approached Appalachian Spring in this way, rather than succumbing to the temptation to overarrange.

In spite of its problems, I still think that the fan network is worth my $59. 10 years ago I would have killed for live streams of Denver, San Antonio, Atlanta, and Semis, on demand videos, and videos of past finals, at whatever quality. Still, a little bit of a communication about delays in posting on demand videos, and about the low quality of the audio stream, would go a long way in assuaging complaints. Just letting us know that there is a problem and that it is being worked on would be much better than clamming up. Assuming that there is a problem of course, and not some misbegotten attempt to improve profits at the expense of quality.

Will you stop being so officious?

That was not vicious. It was a mild, constructive criticism of Crown's visual program. I disagree with it (for this year's show, at least) "Vicious" would sound something like "Crown's drill has all the grace and power of a cow patty. I hope the entire staff and membership spontaneously combust so that their shameful display of visual incompetence does not continue to debase our activity." Here's a few more examples of the difference between vicious and non-vicious remarks: Vicious: "I hate Crown with all of my heart, mind, body, and soul." Not vicious: "I personally don't care for Crown's style. Just not my cup of tea." Vicious: "I hate puppies so much that I sometimes break into the animal shelter just to bludgeon 10 or 12 of them to death." Not vicious: "I'm not really a dog person." As for my own criticisms of Crown, I have only one: Lose the green tentacles growing out of the uniforms. Other than that, you have a championship caliber show. And I hope you do win, because you're the South's best hope for a championship. It's been a painfully long wait since that's been a possibility!

Right now your corps is loved by practically all segments of the drum corps audience: band kids, current members, vets both progressive and old school, casual fans, etc. There are a few people who simply don't dig what you do, and perhaps a few genuine "haters", but there is no long term, widespread "hate" of Crown and its fans. You took a lot of guff (some of it very rude and most of it unnecessary) in 2004 over your use voice. That was just one year, but it seems like after that year much of the staff, fans, and even the members of the corps went into a defensive lockdown and developed an "us against them" attitude that -- going by your post -- some have not completely shaken off, even though you've been crowd favorites (and maybe even DCP favorites) for a couple of years now. DCP is not a hotbed of Crown hate. For every "negative" post like the original one in this thread, there have been ten that are supportive.

I understand what you're saying, but not being "careless" with a weapon sounds like a condemnation of any non-functional use of a weapon, including not only modern drum corps, but 70s drum corps, as well as the hundreds of military and non-military dance traditions around the world that use weapons in a way that can be considered "careless" -- and that includes some of the moves employed by the Marine silent drill team. Of course, the members of the drill team know what they're doing -- but so do members of modern color guards. As for why they keep these weapons, that's been thoroughly answered elsewhere in this thread. As for the military roots of drum corps, I grant you that not many my age or younger are aware of drum corps military origins. But I feel that these military roots run far deeper than superficial aspects of drum corps performance and are still quite alive and well in the total experience of drum corps, which left myself and many others well-prepared (and sometimes even over-prepared!) for the early stages of our military experience. I don't really see the difference between this and your own era of drum corps (which based on your first post I'm assuming is the 70s, please correct me if I'm wrong) which had already deviated significantly from the earliest drum corps, performance wise, with new instruments in brass and percussion, the addition valves to the brass instruments, the development of marching band-style field shows and drill rather than just military-style parades, the growth of the color guard into something that was not simply a color guard, etc. Again, I think this boils down to today's drum corps being different from the style of drum you grew up with. And I totally understand that. I'm sure I'll feel the same way in 2030 when RoboHopkins forces through a rule allowing computers to coordinate shows using microchips implanted in the performers brains. And I'm sure many vets felt the same way in your day looking at the numerous innovations that had altered drum corps from what it in was their day. Edit: Just wanted to say that I don't want to use the "your just an old timer" excuse as a way to circumvent discussion about the problems with modern drum corps. But I do think nostalgia is the unseen force behind many of these kinds of complaints, and needs to be acknowledged. It doesn't mean older styles of drum corps can't be compared favorably (or unfavorably) with modern corps.

Soft endings can be just as powerful as loud ones. The most effective drum corps ending (in my opinion, of course) I have experienced live was the end Vanguard's 2000 show. From the fan network videos this ending looks like it could be just as good. I can't wait to see it in person.

Told you so. Don't tempt fate. Or are you secretly a Crown supporter? If so, mission accomplished!

crfrey, I've spent eight years in the military, and a lifetime hunting, and have certainly learned to treat weapons with respect. But I'm having a very hard time locating the "disrespect" you claim today's guards are showing towards their equipment. What this, and most complaints likenthis boil down to, is "WHY ISN'T DRUM CORPS THE SAME AS IT WAS WHEN I MARCHED!?!?!?" It has little to do with "military roots" or "respect".

Now you've all but ensured that Crown will beat the Cadets at some point or another. Possibly even tonight. The gods of drum corps are fickle, and posts like this are the surest way to incur their wrath.

Well, since you asked, in the first fifty years after its murky beginnings in the 1860s and 1870s American football was ruined by unnecessary innovations like touchdowns, "down and distance" rules, the line of scrimmage, the forward pass, penalties, and so forth, turning a once dashing and elegant Ivy League sport into a hideous monstrosity. Most major team sports have undergone profound changes since their standardization in the 19th century. Soccer involved a fair amount of ball handling in its earliest years, etc. Like the DCI form of drum corps, these sports didn't spontaneously pop into existence in their modern forms, but developed slowly over time. DCI has evolved from other forms of drum corps in the same way that soccer, American football, rugby union and league, Australian football, etc. all developed from the same game in less than 200 years.

From the crusty vets: "Well, when I marched, we didn't have ____ or ____, the guard ____ed instead of doing all this ____ ####, and ____ ____ ____ #### Hopkins!" "____? Never heard of that composer. Sounds like more esoteric college boy wind ensemble BS to me. Why can't they just play ____'s Park or something like that, something the crowd can get into?" From the progressives: "_____'s Park? Why are they rehashing that tired old chart? Why can't they play something more challenging and thought provoking, like __nacek? I think I'll just take my M_c down to the St____cks and work on my WGI show instead of going to finals. This is so disappointing." From the confused but enthusiastic 15 year old band girl sitting behind you in the crowd: "Next year I'm trying out for the Cavies!

I'm a fairly young guy, just a few years past age out, and I have all of the 1970s legacy DVDs and watch them regularly. I'm especially fond of the Muchachos from that era. I'm also not a fan of these cosmetic changes in the performance aspect of drum corps, and occasionally wish a few corps would be brave enough to buck current trends and put it all out there like the Muchachos did. I certainly respect the history of drum corps before my time. But the argument you've presented here is one of the most preposterous I've ever encountered on DCP, where there is an abundance of nonsense. Imagine if I, a historian, claimed that you don't respect history, our country, and our freedoms because you do not enjoy studying the early history of the United States. Put another way, what are some of your favorite shows and performances from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. How many records do you own from these decades? How frequently do you listen to them? If you can't name any shows, and don't care to listen to any of the old LPs, does it mean you "disrespect" drum corps from before your era? If you are interested in pre-DCI drum corps, I apologize, but clearly there are many from your era who do not. Do they "disrespect" the history of drum corps because of this? Or this more about snot-nosed punks and traitors your age or older who simply don't care for drum corps from YOUR era? I suspect it's the latter, but my apologies if I'm incorrect . . .

Agreed. DCI is welcome to hold finals in my back yard as often as they want! And I know there's been a lot of angst over the Indianapolis deal, but I hate to see it unravel because it really did seem to be a good set-up for DCI. But DCI can probably handle the costs, and if they can't they can easily move elsewhere, as much as that would suck (for me personally, at least). BOA isn't as fortunate. They're toeing the line as it is.

While I'd love to see the Colts place as high as the Blue Stars did, I'm not sure that's going to happen for a while. Good guard, but show design needs to go up a couple of notches before it'll happen. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I think the real question is whether the Blue Stars will be able to replicate last year's success.

I've had experiences with talkers, but never any quite like those. But last year at quarters I sat behind a gentleman who quietly read a book through the first fourteen corps (except for Madison) and only put it down when Vanguard came on. He wasn't actually disturbing anyone, so I couldn't say anything, but I was so furious that I wanted to take the book and punt it over the back wall of the stadium. It's good I didn't do that, since I can't kick worth a darn and would have embarrassed myself, but that's how annoyed I was. I know lots of folks feel the same way as this guy, but they at least have the decency to stay in the lot until the top corps are up instead of blatantly disrespecting the lower corps like he did. As for these talkers, just ask them why they are in the stands at all if they're not giong to pay attention, and suggest they go to the lot, the concessions, or the souvie booths until the corps they're interested in perform.

Fine, we're all whiners. I'll concede you that. But to say that DCI demolished local corps is complete and utter nonsense. Matt_S has said what I've been trying much better than I can actually say it, so have a look at his most recent post next time you're bored. I'm on your side more than you think I am. I'm not a fan of many of the changes DCI is making. But these wild, conspiratorial accusations against DCI are over the top. My only experience actually marching drum corps (until I move near to a city with a senior corps) was a summer in a small Kentucky corps that no longer exists. DCI didn't kill that corps. What killed that corps was lack of preparation by the staff and direction, lack of interest by other young people in the area, and lack of alternatives to the national tour model. None of these issues are DCI's fault, and DCI has no obligation to address and correct them.

I can kind of accept that. I just think it should be clear that DCI is nowhere near the main culprit when it comes to "killing corps". DCI isn't the reason why little corps have no alternatives besides the national tour. DCI's national tour model, and the nationally touring corps that are a part of it, was the only circuit out of all the regional and state circuits that once existed strong enough to survive the changes that killed off the local corps. The fact that there's no competitive alternative for today's little corps is not DCI's fault. Yes, it could go out of their way to create some, but why should it put money and effort into something that will almost certainly be a losing investment when it's had a hard enough time surviving itself? And I didn't necessarily want to single out MartyBucs, I meant everyone -- including myself, apparently -- but he did say that DCI ran over his kind of drum corps, which you have to admit is kind of whiny.

Well . . . you whined first!

There's so much music out there in all genres: classical, Latin, opera, rock, wind band, and heck even things like country, bluegrass, rap, pre-1850s classical music, etc. that the folks on today's design staffs usually shy away from. All of that music just waiting to be explored, yet many corps choose to unearth to corpses of these old favorites and drag them around for one more summer, kind of like Weekend at Bernie's 2. Sometimes the results are pleasing, but more often than not the new "twist" on these classics involves over-arranging them in the "stop and bop" style so many people on here, myself included, dislike. This is why I appreciate corps like SCV who (except for this year and 05) usually bring new music to the table, and try to create new classics instead of mutilating old ones. Although this topic raises another question: do some corps go back to these old classics because of the uncertainty of obtaining the rights to play new music, or am I completely off base with this?

Typical DCP crybaby move. "I'm unable to respond to your actual argument, so I'll just say something cute."

No, the social and economic transformations of the 70s and 80s were the 18 wheeler that ran over the Honda Civic. DCI is more like an F150 following the 18 wheeler that saw the wreck happen, but just drove on by. It's not responsible for the accident, but didn't everything it could to help out, either. As for the Mummers, I'm sure none have sponsored a drum corps, but they seemed to fit in a list of civic organizations that are slowly fading away. And the whining . . . I don't know what else you'd call it. I love DCP, but I don't think I've ever encountered a whinier bunch of folks anywhere on the world wide interwebs.

It's amazing that some people are so myopic as to pin the demise of small, local corps on DCI. The real blame for their decline lies with the same social and economic forces that have pushed the organizations that used to sponsor these corps -- AL, VFW, Scouts, Masons, Mummers, Kiwanis, churches -- to the brink of extinction. I think we can also blame those people who clearly love this type of drum corps, yet have done nothing bring them back into existence beyond whining on an internet message board. Throw some time and money into creating a local corps that teaches kids from scratch (and I'm sure some of you have, but I'd wager many haven't) and then you can complain. Could DCI have done more to save all those thousands of little corps? Sure, but why is it their responsibility? Why should an organization that was created by big corps, and which has always been about serving the interests of these corps, be expected to throw its money into that black hole? Don't get me wrong -- I love the little local corps -- but we have to accept that they're a thing of the past, and will remain so unless we ourselves do something about it. But I imagine most of us will choose the easier route of blaming DCI for everything that's gone wrong with the activity we love.

DCI wasn't created as a charity organization designed to help out all the Hooterville Rangerette Cadets and the Salina Velvet Prairie Chicken Vanguards of the drum corps world. DCI was created by the large, successful, nationally-touring corps for the large, successful, nationally-touring corps. It's succeeded in promoting the type of drum corps it was designed to promote, and bears no responsibility for the loss of small, local corps and the regional circuits -- the reasons for their demise lie with cultural, social, and economic factors that are outside of DCI's control. We only blame DCI because it's something concrete we can direct our complaints to. The ESPN broadcast was a dismal failure, but was the "Star of Indiana situation" really DCI's fault? And how can we call the commitment to Indy a failure only two years into the deal? Honestly . . .