Pioneer scores

[MARK74]

I think you make some very good and valid points.

Some members of Pioneer are no bones about it...they are using Pioneer as a way to march a Div. I tour but ultimately they want to go on to another corps higher up the ladder. Hey, that's life...good luck...thanks for the times we had together. I guess you can't stop people from trying to reach their ultimate goals in life.

These same Pioneer members may have tried out for Regiment, Madison, Cavies, etc. They may have been told at those auditions that they didn't quite have the experience to march with any of these corps this year. Pioneer offers an opportunity to perform a Div. I schedule..to stand next to and to watch the corps I mentioned plus others and yet....it's about learning. It really is about learning...and getting better everyday. Do some Pioneer members move on to other corps...no doubt.

You mentioned a low number of age outs, losing talent and experience every year...and you are correct. That's the downside.

Someone mentioned somewhere about the fact they are still on G horns. Playing a G horn is no more difficult than playing a Bb horn. They sound different as the Gs are pitched lower and maybe offer slightly less resistence, but it's miniscule. You play the horn you are given...it's drum corps.

People have mentioned that the drumline smokes this year. That's great. And someone mentioned they think the guard has improved this year over year's past...great again.

They may be perenially a young, first up, 22nd place corps. I guess if they still get members and can do a Div. I tour successfully and they remain financially solvent...more power to them. Some years I like their show...some years I see it once and then it doesn't strike me as a good show. Hey that's happened with corps up and down the scoresheet.

But there is a big IF here. IF Pioneer could begin to hold onto a nucleus of young and developing musicians and marchers...IF they could mold a staff and could retain some consistency in their ranks...who knows.....IT could happen.

By the way....Milwaukee is a great town...one of the finest in the country...home of Sprecker Beer and Kopps Frozen Custard.

I love Milwaukee.

be patient some here may not remember but the cadets had some down years in the mid '70's and let's not forget or be ungrateful for Boston ,and Blue Stars hanging in there year after year FOR MANY YEARS until they found their way again. Some times it takes awhile and ,as they say as long as your breathin' you can always do better I have a feeling Pioneer will do just fine be patient Great things come from places less observed

[Drillwatcher]

The truth of the matter is.... if you were any better than the administration or staff at Pioneer, than you wouldn't be here on this forum spouting trash. Lets face it, Paul Rennick never gets on this forum and talks trash. Because people with ability and class don't need to validate themselves by flaming other groups work. Critique all you wish, but take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you could do any better. By the nature of your posts, I'm sure your pretense will convince you that you could. However, if you could, you would probably be teaching or judging. One thing is certain, if you were worth anything more than hot air, you wouldn't be on this board pretentending to know something. I am not affiliated with Pioneer, but I can't imagine that your sponsorship is worth all the garbage you spout.

I could. I have and the people who recieve them would disagree. By the way unlike many others I never blame it on the children.

[Drillwatcher]

be patient some here may not remember but the cadets had some down years in the mid '70's and let's not forget or be ungrateful for Boston ,and Blue Stars hanging in there year after year FOR MANY YEARS until they found their way again. Some times it takes awhile and ,as they say as long as your breathin' you can always do better I have a feeling Pioneer will do just fine be patient Great things come from places less observed

[morganhill]

According to the latest results just in from San Antonio, the Pioneer's scores are still very consistient and therefore, I am certain, justifiable and legitimate, as they have been all summer. I look forward to seeing them in person in Pasadena next month. In the mean time, enough of the complaining already!

Edited July 22, 2007 by morganhill

[Littlehendrix]

I don't think stating that Pioneer comes in last is any attack on the kids or their work ethic. Rather, consistently low scores can and should be attributed to organizational direction, the design of the show, and how rehearsal time is being spent.

I believe in the expression ‘work smarter not harder’. That’s how talented corps win and not-as-talented corps compete. Admittedly, I have no idea how the Pioneer organization is run or what their rehearsals are like, but its tough to ascribe low placements and scores to the members’ youth. Boston Crusaders are the 4th youngest corps in DCI, and they’re almost a lock to make finals. I don’t think the kids are the issue here, and they should not be offended by criticism of their corps (though that’s not to say that they won’t be).

yeah, but the Boston Crusaders also field 135 members a year and get to choose who they want in the corps....age and skill are not always related.....

[raphael18]

I think it's great that Pioneer strives to be "Better Everyday." However, it's a shame that the corps they are competing against strive to be better every rep.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you why Pioneer isn't successful competitively. There were more than a few years in DCM where the Div 2/3s caught them - and those corps are even smaller. I think part of it may be the relatively weak marching band scene in Wisconsin. They don't get the experienced High School marchers that other corps like Boston have available to them. [However, I think it was 01 or 02 when one of their snares nearly won DCI I&E - so, they do have some talent! :)]

Corps people aren't used to this - but the quality of marching bands really reflects in the talent available to corps.

[Jeremy Denzer]

This would be true if any division 1 corps actually relied solely on local talent. The fact is that the majority of corps members are not from the same city or state as the corps that they are marching in.

[copyright]

Brandon, Div II/IIIs are on different sheets.

Littlehendrix, pick a better topic to exhume, perhaps Amplification or Full Retreat.

[nothingbetter]

ok, I skipped all the arguing after reading 2 1/2 pages of it, so I'll just put in my 2cents

It seems like it's not a matter of the "kids" (quotes 'cause most of them are probably older than I am...ha) exactly, it's more with the way their rehearsals are run. It seems to be a amount of work vs. work with efficiency issue.

i.e., no floor time, rehearsals starting every day at 7:30 ish... if a corps works this much, and doesn't improve like that, it seems to be more of an issue with the way rehearsal, or the corps itself is run.

if this much time is spent on rehearsal, and scores don't improve, it's obviously something to do with the way rehearsal is run, or how the corps is motivated/if they self motivate.

[oldtimedrummer]

I think Pioneer is a great organization. The price of poker keeps going up, and I'm not sure they completely understand the game.