Division 1 and 2 together?

[ouooga]

It seems that every year, Division 1 loses a corps or two. I understand, a lot of corps just take a year off, but it still bothers me when there are less than 24 corps in Division 1. I personally would like to see even more than that, but less than 24 just feels weird to me. Looking at this year, there are only 22, and that in my mind is a huge drop from previous years, concidering all of the corps that are either back from a year of retirement or have recently been pulled up from Dvision 2.

On that note, as far as I can tell (and this I might be incorrect about) there are far fewer Division 2's than before, and yet there are a ton of Division 3's. I remmeber going to California shows and having an almost entirely D2 show, and last month in Riverside it was 5 or 6 Division 3's and no Division 2's. That's just from California!

So here is what I propose, now that I've gone long winded a bit on some tangents.

1) Division 3 has its own finals, seperate from Division 2.

2) Division 2 would be judged on the same sheet all season as Division 1. I believe (again, could be wrong) that they are generally judged a little easier, as I see Division 2 corps with the same scores as the respective placing corps in Division 1 at the same time in the season. During finals week, Division 2 competes with Division 1. The Division 2 corps, during finals week, would go on before the Division 1s at quarters, and be thrown into the Division 1 mix placement wise. This way, finals week would house over 30 corps, which to me is at least a little more impressive. The highest scoring (placing) Division 2 corps would be crowned the Division 2 Champion (similar to how Division 3 champion is crowned now), and the finals week seems more of an "Open battle" between the world's top junior drum and bugle corps.

The other route to go would be to do the exact same thing, but eliminate quarters, and go back to the style of years ago, with Friday being "Prelims" which was basically a day long tournament for placement into finals.

Division 2 is permitted the same rules as Division 1. The same number of members, many perform the same touring schedule, and with so many Division 2s in the last few years moving into Division 1, it feels more like a grooming for Division 1 anyways.

I realize there are a ton of marketing issues, especially with the CDs and DVDs of the season, and with the movie theaters and tickets and everything, but that all aside, because I'm sure if this were ever chosen, there would be solutions to all of that. I'm really just curious if the simple idea and nothing else is intriguing to anyone.

[mcjordansc]

They should go back to the old way. DII and III on early in the week (finals on Wednesday). Let a set number of corps move into QF of D1. I liked that and it usually resulted in some nice surprises. Corps that do not want to do a national tour go the DII route, earn their way into D1 QF and can go as far as their show will let them, even finals (see Magic).

[rosski47]

And then Div. III would turn into the redheaded step-child.

[Jared315]

Turn into??

What do you call it now?

No one reviews it - DCI Level 1 judges cannot judge it.

No one attends it and no one discusses it except for those in Div III or parents of Div III.

Most cry about the lack of corps but then they fail to support where it can start (Div III)

Of the top Div III corps in 2007 - 6 were Div II Finalist and 2 were at some point Div I Finalist!

Former Div II Finalist

Revolution

Fever

Memphis Sound

Oregon Crusaders

Impulse

Capital Sound

Former Div I Finalist

DutchBoy

VK

[SkyRyder_FMM]

Or how about we just eliminate Div II/III, have everyone compete on the same sheets, and let the chips fall where they may?

Eliminate the requirement to tour, and let the smaller corps compete locally/regionally, with limited touring o the road to Championships.

This is more like the model that used to exist. Very few corps competed in Class A (the old equivalent of Div II/III), but many of the lower placing Open Class (predecessor to Div I) corps were more like the Div II/III corps we have today.

[Jared315]

Div II/III was created by the directors themselves to better promote the have and have not system. As it is now to become Div I those directors have to vote you in based on thier system. Of which they themselves cannot follow - look at Cap Reg or Magic or even Madison and look at how they struggle financially even with the big Div I payout. They bring in Thousands of dollors in show fees while at most a div II/III will bring in @7000 for Div I shows and barely 1500 for Div III shows total! (not per show)! So what they do competatively and financially is even more incredible!

DCI now wants to model the NFL and NBA and treat each corps as a francise and state that you must operate a budget of at least 200,000+ but they fail to see the flaw in the design - NFL is for profit! DCI is a non-profit, but yet they act in solitude to better themselves and not activity as a whole.

Bring on the one division! The only one to be really scared of that would be the lower placing corps and those that raised the biggest fuss about it in 2002 that prompted the change are no longer here and that system is no longer here!

Edited July 27, 2007 by Jared315

[Supersop08]

Do you think DCI raising Div. 1 to 150 members will hurt Div.2/3? Are numbers for Div 2/3 going to be raised to for next year you think?

Edited July 27, 2007 by Supersop08

[Liam]

Or how about we just eliminate Div II/III, have everyone compete on the same sheets, and let the chips fall where they may?

Eliminate the requirement to tour, and let the smaller corps compete locally/regionally, with limited touring o the road to Championships.

This is more like the model that used to exist. Very few corps competed in Class A (the old equivalent of Div II/III), but many of the lower placing Open Class (predecessor to Div I) corps were more like the Div II/III corps we have today.

Yeah -- instead of calling the Div I, Div II, Div III, created three touring models -- Full national tour, limited tour, local/regional tour.

National Tour is like what most corps do now. Best case scenario for recruiting, exposure, competition, etc. Would perform in shows coast to coast as desired and compete in all Regioinal championships and Finals

Limited Tour would span maybe two regions. Most shows within a two days drive. Easier on budget although trade-off is less exposure nationwide. Might not compete against all other Limited corps based on region. Would compete in two Regional Championships (your own Region and next closest Region). And Finals.

Local/Regional Tour would compete only within region. All shows within 1 day drive. Would likely end up being mostly local members (although not necessary). Would only compete in 1 Regional. And Finals if desired/budgeted.

All corps would otherwise follow same rules/scoresheets. Seeding for Regionals/Finals and all that would have to be worked out, but advantage would be given to National corps 1st, then Limited, then Local.

[Feathers Up]

I remember 2000 being a very cool year for the SCV organization with both corps making Semifinals..But it is better for the Divisions to be seperate in my opinion..It is not the goal for every Div II corps to move up to Div I or even compete with Div I corps..

Edited July 27, 2007 by ScvSpirit

[mcjordansc]

And then Div. III would turn into the redheaded step-child.

I should have said DII/III route. There is no reason a DIII corps could not make QF. It happened in 1999 when both Mandarin and Blue Stars made it through. Just take a set amount of corps from the DII/III finals. In 1999 it was the top five scoring corps regardless of division.

Plus, I would like to say this Saturday morning finals for DII/III is dumb anyway. Let the corps compete on the same field (or at least in the same city) as the DI corps and put their finals under the lights on Wednesday night.

Edited July 27, 2007 by mcjordansc