Div I/II/III Publicity Levels

[no_itsnotadash]

II/III may have less products because from the begining they are behind. Many members will leave for Division I's, new staff for many, a huge amount of rookies in many corps, and on top of that, the design isn't as complex as many Division I's.

[Blueemrld8]

I think DCI does give SOME consideration to Div II/III, but not enough. I think it was a step in the right direction to put Div II/III finals on the same day as Div I, but WHY is it not being held at the Rose Bowl? Perhaps more people would come and see them and plan to spend the whole day at the stadium if their show was held at the same stadium. The kids in II/III are already sacrificing the treat of competing in a night finals, they shouldn't have to sacrifice being able to compete on the the same turf as the "big boys".

Venues for II/III are poorly advertised and often poorly attended. These corps provide the oportunity to many kids to get their first taste of drum corps and allow the opportunity for those to march who cannot make the financial or time commitment. The work ethic requirements for Div II/III is no different from Div I, while individual exposure is much greater.

I think DCI should be putting together a program for Div II/III Directors to take into the schools to entice kids to come out. Unfortunately it is probably too late for Canada. There is not much left here to entice them into.

( a duplicate post of mine from above mentioned thread)

That is why i think the answer is not to combine Div. I and Div. II but to combine Div. II and Div. III.

In my view, the combination of these Divisions would....

1. Bring in more fans for both which would lead to

a. More money

b. More publicity

2. More competition which would boost the level of preformance and thus

a. give them a better chance at competing against Div. 1 in the future if they so choose

b. elevate the Division as a whole without requiring the financial commitment of Div. 1

Now, if we could only get rid of that pesky Div. 3 member quota.

[NR_Ohiobando]

I doubt it'll happen, and I don't even know if this is the right thread to be asking/suggesting in...

But how possible would it be to let the Velvet Knights perform exhibition on Div 1 Finals Night...considering they are technically the host corps? It'd be good advertisement for Div II/III, as well as VK. Plus I think the crowd of 20,000+ would appreciate it, not to mention how much the kids in the corps would enjoy it. B)

Just an idea

[Tom Brace]

I believe DCI provides opportunities for II/III corps to compete. I believe this is all that is necessary. II/IIIs have to quit expecting someone to do the difficult work for them. II/IIIs need to own the problem...do more publicity...make their product known...make it attractive...make people want to come see them.

It's not DCIs job. They provide an opportunity for these corps to perform. It's basically survival of the fittest. It's pretty much the way it's always been. If a corps can't afford to go on the road...they go inactive. I guess DCI should advertise every locally sponsored show more than they do now as well? No...that's up to the individual corps.

[crest99]

I think part of the reason that DII/III championships often runs at smaller facilities is that DCI wanted the kids to perform their final shows in a relatively full venue rather than in a great big stadium with only one or two sections filled. A few thousand people can fill a first-class high school or junior college stadium and create a really exciting atmosphere, but that kind of crowd just can't do much in a huge bowl like Pasadena.

But I also have been disappointed by the decline of DII/III, and I do feel that DCI could have - and can - do more for this segment of the activity. DCI's marketing strategies over the past few years have sometimes exhibited a myopic focus on the top handful of corps. We have to keep in mind that this approach is not without virtue - the activity has come a long way since the mid-1990s, when DCI was in utter financial disarray. In terms of the bottom line, DCI absolutely must rely on groups like the Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Cadets, and Regiment to put people in seats. Nonprofit does not mean that it's ok to go broke.

At the same time, I think that DCI is neglecting its educational mission (the reason it is a nonprofit in the first place) by placing too much focus on the top units. In terms of recruiting, this strategy essentially targets affluent young people who generally already have access to either high-quality music programs or private tutors - or both. By contrast, the kids in DII/III are often the ones who need music education the most. They are generally younger. They probably haven't had access to top-notch music education programs in their schools, if they have one at all. In a few cases, these corps serve less affluent communities that used to be the home to so many corps. More to the point, this is the type of constituency that DII/III can and should serve in a big way, and one to which DCI ought to devote more of its resources.

Chris

Edited August 3, 2007 by crest99

[BOBSMYTH]

A couple of comments:

First we need to define terms. Just in this thread alone there at least 4 different definitions (or metrics of success) by which "Division II & III publicity" is being talked about. In other words, this issue is more complex than one simple thread on DCP can cover. Is it all about a mention on the ESPN broadcast? Is it about the survival of individual units? Is it about referral of marching members between corps? Is it about ticket sales during finals week?

Taking just one of those issues: ticket sales. It is kind of a chicken and egg discussion. Are ticket sales low because of a lack of promotion? -OR- Are promotional efforts low (IE - spent in other places) because of a lack of perceived incremental sales for these events? Well meaning, intelligent people can make the case both ways.

Now - let's just throw out one additional thought and connect some dots here for those who might not have caught this.

I am sitting here with my copy of the Drum Corps International Summer Music Games 2007 Souvenir Yearbook.

On page 2 under the Yearbook Staff listing, there is a relatively new DCI staff position called "DCI Marketing Quarterback" with the name listed being Robert Jacobs. He is also mentioned on page 28 along with the entire DCI staff.

Page 89 is the Jersey Surf page and the Executive Director of Jersey Surf is listed as Robert Jacobs.

(And yes, it is the same guy.)

For those of you who think the DCI Marketing people hate Div II & III - I really don't think you can say that, at least not anymore. Not if they're putting one of the more successful Division II Directors in recent years in charge of the marketing effort for the entire activity.

For those of you who are holding out hope for good things in this area as we all go forward, you just might get your wish.

[madscout96]

I believe DCI provides opportunities for II/III corps to compete. I believe this is all that is necessary. ...

And I don't believe that DCI is doing even this. At least, not in the capacity that it does for div. I. You barely see any div. II/III corps at any shows with div. I corps, and when they do perform, they're judged on separate sheets! What on earth is the point of being on separate sheets when you're the only div. II corps there? So you can say you got another (default) victory?? That's not an opportunity to compete! An opportunity to compete would be more div. II/III corps at shows that aren't strictly for II/III, and being judged on the same sheets as div. I.

[drumcat]

And I don't believe that DCI is doing even this. At least, not in the capacity that it does for div. I. You barely see any div. II/III corps at any shows with div. I corps, and when they do perform, they're judged on separate sheets! What on earth is the point of being on separate sheets when you're the only div. II corps there? So you can say you got another (default) victory?? That's not an opportunity to compete! An opportunity to compete would be more div. II/III corps at shows that aren't strictly for II/III, and being judged on the same sheets as div. I.

When you make 2/3's "tag along" on D1 shows, you get several bad things:

*Less head-to-head 2/3 competition.

*More arbitrary scores.

*Earlier show starts.

*Less attention paid to them.

The more opportunities they get to compete are driven by their willingness to tour. If you are an advocate for regional touring, you also have to accept that there will be fewer performance opportunities. It's just math.

[madscout96]

I think part of the reason that DII/III championships often runs at smaller facilities is that DCI wanted the kids to perform their final shows in a relatively full venue rather than in a great big stadium with only one or two sections filled. A few thousand people can fill a first-class high school or junior college stadium and create a really exciting atmosphere, but that kind of crowd just can't do much in a huge bowl like Pasadena.

But I also have been disappointed by the decline of DII/III, and I do feel that DCI could have - and can - do more for this segment of the activity. DCI's marketing strategies over the past few years have sometimes exhibited a myopic focus on the top handful of corps. We have to keep in mind that this approach is not without virtue - the activity has come a long way since the mid-1990s, when DCI was in utter financial disarray. In terms of the bottom line, DCI absolutely must rely on groups like the Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Cadets, and Regiment to put people in seats. Nonprofit does not mean that it's ok to go broke.

At the same time, I think that DCI is neglecting its educational mission (the reason it is a nonprofit in the first place) by placing too much focus on the top units. In terms of recruiting, this strategy essentially targets affluent young people who generally already have access to either high-quality music programs or private tutors - or both. By contrast, the kids in DII/III are often the ones who need music education the most. They are generally younger. They probably haven't had access to top-notch music education programs in their schools, if they have one at all. In a few cases, these corps serve less affluent communities that used to be the home to so many corps. More to the point, this is the type of constituency that DII/III can and should serve in a big way, and one to which DCI ought to devote more of its resources.

Chris

Good post, but I have to discuss the first paragraph.

From 1999 to 2001 (or was it 2002?), DCI had a fantastic arrangement for div. II/III finals. They were held on Wednesday night, in THE stadium, after I&E had taken place during the day somewhere else. They had this big Olympic style "Opening Ceremonies". It included all corps walking into the stadium, one at a time, and being announced and recognized one by one, all divisions. Then there was the age out ceremony, where Dan Potter would talk to 3 crying age outs (one from each div.). Then they had all the hornlines from all the corps play America The Beautiful en masse, conducted by a guest conductor (in 2001 in Buffalo it was Frederick Fennell, he was thrilled!!). Then div. II/III Finals began, starting with the top 7 in div. III, followed by top 5 in div. II. In between corps, the I&E champions would do their "Showcase of Talent", and the audience would get to see some good I&E acts. Then retreat, and that was it.

What a great event to begin finals week! It brought a ton of people into that stadium to see all that went on that night. I mean it seemed to be well attended, providing a NICE sized crowd for div. II/III finals. I wonder why DCI stopped doing it and put II/III in a crap stadium in the Saturday morning sun.

[drumcat]

I wonder why DCI stopped doing it and put II/III in a crap stadium in the Saturday morning sun.

PLEASE! Because the D2/3 directors wanted to! It's been said several times. You may not like it, I may not like it, but that's what they chose to do. Besides, that Wednesday gig just peeved all the D1 corps because they lost their last rehearsal date.