Div I/II/III Publicity Levels

[Officer_Jenny]

Div II & III are the red-headed step-children of DCI.

These corps do not usually offer as good of a product as the top Div. I corps. Therefore, people are less inclined to see them and that's why those corps generate less revenue.

[ruag8tr2]

These corps do not usually offer as good of a product as the top Div. I corps. Therefore, people are less inclined to see them and that's why those corps generate less revenue.

I will agree that the 2/3 corps dont offer a product like the top level 1 corps, but some 2/3 corps would be competitive with the lower third of D1 corps. That is where most of the disparity lies. Why should a lower D1 corps generate 1700.00 for a performance (DCI) and the upper D2 corps only make 900.00. This is an example of the rich getting richer. D2 corps are spending the same type of dollars to do a tour. I was out there. It costs the same amount to feed a kid in a D2/3 corps as it does to feed a D1 kid. DCI controls the supply and demand of drum corps. That is one of the reasons they call it "marching music's major leagues" and it has become an organization for only the elite...

Sorry for the rant.

[madscout96]

These corps do not usually offer as good of a product as the top Div. I corps.

On what do you base this opinion?

[JimF-LowBari]

Didn't give this earlier as I didn't want discussion to be affected. Just for comparision here's the DCA side changes over the years concerning smaller corps.

Until about 10 years ago DCA did not have classes based on size (like first years of DCI) and the little guys got clobbered by the top corps. Now if you have a corps size of 65 or less you can opt to go to the Class A (smaller size) or be in Open (any size) group. During the regular season all corps go head to head in a show and Classes only come into play DCA Weekend. All corps perform the same day and venue for Prelims and for Finals the top 3 Class A corps compete followed by the top 10 Open Class corps. Yes, some people arrive at Finals after the Class A corps perform but plenty of people watch and enjoy the Class A performances. As one person put it "It's a different type of Drum Corps but it's still Drum Corps and these (smaller) groups are just as talented".

[Toby]

These corps do not usually offer as good of a product as the top Div. I corps.

What basis do you have?

I enjoy the shows from all three levels. It's the fan that grades the quality overall product, not the numbers.

[DrumCorpsMom]

I think DCI does give SOME consideration to Div II/III, but not enough. I think it was a step in the right direction to put Div II/III finals on the same day as Div I, but WHY is it not being held at the Rose Bowl? Perhaps more people would come and see them and plan to spend the whole day at the stadium if their show was held at the same stadium. The kids in II/III are already sacrificing the treat of competing in a night finals, they shouldn't have to sacrifice being able to compete on the the same turf as the "big boys".

Venues for II/III are poorly advertised and often poorly attended. These corps provide the oportunity to many kids to get their first taste of drum corps and allow the opportunity for those to march who cannot make the financial or time commitment. The work ethic requirements for Div II/III is no different from Div I, while individual exposure is much greater.

I think DCI should be putting together a program for Div II/III Directors to take into the schools to entice kids to come out. Unfortunately it is probably too late for Canada. There is not much left here to entice them into.

[kbkcdrums]

These corps do not usually offer as good of a product as the top Div. I corps.

On what do you base this opinion?

What basis do you have?

I enjoy the shows from all three levels. It's the fan that grades the quality overall product, not the numbers.

I think what Jenny is trying to say is that Div. I corps tend to have more difficult shows; faster tempos, higher notes, harder music, bigger corps, tough drill, etc...not necessarily a bad quality product. From what I've seen and experienced, Div II/III shows tend to be easier. (Jenny, please correct me if I'm wrong!)

[silvertrombone]

Only read OP's post.

Let me ask it a little bit different way...have you ever heard of D2/3 as far as DCI is concerned? Do you see their broadcasts make mention of them? Are they included on marketing materials in pictures?

I mean, seriously...I don't remember seeing anything but top 6...EVER! Maybe I need to be reminded, so please feel free to do so.

My personal take is that all these 600 people showing up to audition for EACH of the top corps need to be told about other options. No, I'm not going to bring up the "forced march" issue, so to speak. But certainly, if you're going to have a fundraiser and invite 600 auditionees to participate, at least have some staffers present from D2/3 corps to pick up some of the stragglers and cuts.

I personally think that D2/3 should be the same size in membership as the D1's, and I don't like the idea of increasing to 135 much less the 150 thing. Not that I'm old-fashioned, but if you want to get more people involved in DC's, the current method is not the optimal. Hype D2/3--it's still better than any marching band I've seen. Have DCI start helping with recruiting with the intent of being the same size as D1 but competing against other D2/3 corps. At the end of the year, the top/bottom 3 move up/down between divisions, and everybody should get appearance money. Right now it is geared towards the top 6 (3?) with no hope of ever changing that.

Actually, let me ask it this way...is there anyone out there who thinks that if the D2/3's banded (pardon the term) together and filed a Federal, Class Action lawsuit alleging monopoly, that they would lose? Ugly thing to have millions of people introduced to drum corps on the nightly news in a court action, huh?

Take care of business, DCI. If you're going to be the figurehead leader of the activity, then lead. Grow the activity...quit shrinking it.

[Bob984]

I think DCI is always getting a worse rep than deserved regarding Div. II/III. Yes, DCI is going to promote the Division I Corps more......whether anyone likes it or not, they are the "major league". I think it is false to say that DCI doesn't care about II/III corps or doesn't want them to do well.

I do think that perhaps show sponsors of Div II/III shows may be less experienced and could use more guidance to advertise Div II/III shows to bring out more fans. If someone runs a show and doesn't get enough people to make a little $$$, let alone maybe not break even, they are not going to run another one. Maybe using the approaches that some successful minor league baseball teams use might provide some ideas.

The one thing I have read in the threads that I full agree with is that the Division II/III Championship should be held at the same spectacular venue as the Div. I championship. I also believe maybe we should return to adding the top 8 div II/III corps to open class quarterfinals. That will give those corps some great exposure. I also believe they should return to having the II/III champions perform exhibitions at finals. All of the above will give the II/III competitors some additional rewards to look forward to, and good promotion/exposure of their corps.

GB

[audiodb]

Actually, let me ask it this way...is there anyone out there who thinks that if the D2/3's banded (pardon the term) together and filed a Federal, Class Action lawsuit alleging monopoly, that they would lose?

Yes. In some cases, these corps specifically requested that DCI administer their local shows, and voluntarily ceased operations of their local circuits once DCI assumed that workload. The Garden State Circuit was shut down in precisely that manner at a point in time where every one of it's participating organizations was also doing DCI shows annually.

If every other junior corps circuit disappeared due to hostile takeover, you might have a point. But that's not the case.