How will you react if The Cadets win?

[Phillygwm]

No one is really angry.

No one wants to believe that they'll misbehave.

Few believe that this show is seminal.

And overall, it's a "this too, shall pass" phenomenon.

Actually, I won't even golf clap. I'll applaud the "licks" that deserve such a response but at the end of the show I will remain seated and silent, as I have for every other Cadets performance this year. I won't go so far as to boo, because that's an affront to the performers, who worked hard all season and deserve at least that much respect. However, I really dislike the show so why should pretend otherwise? For those familiar with The Producers, I would derive satisfaction a "Springtime for Hitler" response.

And yes, I'll still buy tickets for Indy regardless of who wins this year. However if this type of show becomes the way of the future, I'll gradually fall away from the activity. Hopefully a new fan base who enjoys that type of spectacle will start buying tickets to compensate for those of us who leave.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Phillygwm

[euponitone]

You should consider that his opinion is that; just an opinion, no better or worse than yours.

And next time, properly capitalize and hyphenate my title, please. It's "Mr. Overzealous-Spelling-and-Diction-Correcting-Guy."

Opinions are opinions, and facts are facts. He stated - everyone loved star in 1993. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. He stated something about noone loving cadets 2006. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. In this activity, thats about as contrary to the facts as you can get. If I came on here and said that the 2005 were the most popular drum corps of all time, I would be attacked for, well....lying. When you state things as fact, you lose the 'opinion' card that people like to play around here.

And my title is; ey-dontn caer abowt speling andd-gramer.......

[drumcat]

Opinions are opinions, and facts are facts. He stated - everyone loved star in 1993. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. He stated something about noone loving cadets 2006. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. In this activity, thats about as contrary to the facts as you can get. If I came on here and said that the 2005 were the most popular drum corps of all time, I would be attacked for, well....lying. When you state things as fact, you lose the 'opinion' card that people like to play around here.

And my title is; ey-dontn caer abowt speling andd-gramer.......

I think the point was that Star 1993 was popular in its post-mortem. That show grew in popularity well after, but it clearly is popular now. It constantly wins "best show to not win". At the time, you are correct. In the now, he's correct. Everyone move along here...

[jcn8]

To this point, I think people realize drum corps is a follow-me activity. Winners are often emulated, and with 3 minutes of narration, you could imagine going to a show where all shows are like that. I wouldn't be very interested, and I think that projection is the fear.

Inasmuch as I understand this explanation of the fear, from my perspective, the data (at least so far) don't support the argument. The Cadets blew away the competition with The Zone, but the following year, every corps didn't run out and incorporate voice into their shows. In fact, if I recall correctly, BD was the only top four corps to use voice last year. Contrasted to the Cadets huge success with The Zone, they used just as much voice last year (when you include the singing) and the show finished very poorly (by Cadets' standards). Similarly, BD extensively used voice in The Dance Derby and finished poorly by BD standards. However, to the same extent there wasn't a mad rush to emulate the use of voice on the heels of the success with The Zone, their poor finish last season (or BD's weak finish with The Dance Derby) doesn't seem to have discouraged other corps from using voice this season. My point is that if one buys into the "emulation" argument, he or she should also expect that a show with voice/narration that finishes poorly will negatively influence further use of voice. Frankly, I don't see that either has happened, which is why I don't buy into the positive/negative reinforcement theory and the fear of the Cadets winning this year. My personal belief is that, if the Cadets win this year, it is despite the narration, not because of the narration. The outcome won't have an appreciable (or measurable) affect on the use of voice by other corps.

[JimF-LowBari]

Opinions are opinions, and facts are facts. He stated - everyone loved star in 1993. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. He stated something about noone loving cadets 2006. There is a great deal of firsthand evidence to the contrary. In this activity, thats about as contrary to the facts as you can get.

Interesting 1993 comes up as according to the History of Drum Corps book that was "The Year of Audience Discontent" as corps really started pushing the esoteric envelope and lot of fans felt left out of the mix. Personally I was only at 2/3s of a Junior show and heard a lot of complaining first hand from long time fans.

Was only at 2/3s of a show because I got so bored I left before it was over and didn't go to another corps show for 10 years. (Guess I was really discontented)

[drumcat]

My personal belief is that, if the Cadets win this year, it is despite the narration, not because of the narration. The outcome won't have an appreciable (or measurable) affect on the use of voice by other corps.

I'm not sure everyone will make that astute distinction...

[MikeD]

My personal belief is that, if the Cadets win this year, it is despite the narration, not because of the narration. The outcome won't have an appreciable (or measurable) affect on the use of voice by other corps.

I disagree on part 1 of the above, but I agree on part 2. If the judges have been negative on the narration all year long, IMO it would be gone. So if they do win...it will due to the totality of the show, not despite any one thing you happen to dislike.

I do agree on part 2; I don't see any particular result having an appreciable impact throughout DCI.

[cwillpayne]

I think the point was that Star 1993 was popular in its post-mortem. That show grew in popularity well after, but it clearly is popular now. It constantly wins "best show to not win". At the time, you are correct. In the now, he's correct. Everyone move along here...

Ya, what he said...that is what i was getting at.

Well, since we are on the topic of controversy--who was "more controversial"? (i quote that as if i am losing sleep over it)

Crown 2004

or

Cadets 2007

I was thinking, no one really cares about the 528,600 minutes of anything or how to be "BEATiffic" anymore. They look at it and think--"that hornline was #####in"....And in all honesty I think that this years Cadets show will be the same.

Screw Controversy. If the show is good, we will hype it. If it sucks, we won't.

Everyone will give the 2007 Cadets (just like I did last year at finals) their due respect because they are honestly the best drum corps this year. No questions asked. They play better and louder, march better and faster and WORK HARDER than anyone in the game today (though i haven't paid much attention tot he guard). People are going to pop in the DVD in two years and think "####, i shouldn't have sat on my hands during finals"

But I could be wrong, and i hope i am. I hope that somehow, the crowd goes absolutely ape-#### at finals. Those kids deserve it.

HOWEVER, my personal opinion: The narration is like having someone spit in your gourmet meal....... like having a dog take a big duke on your perfectly manicured lawn............like having someone vomit on your brand new white carpet....like hearing your single mom has finally found someone to love, but it turns out to be your best friend so it is really really gross.......you know......

Edited August 3, 2007 by cwillpayne

[jcn8]

I disagree on part 1 of the above, but I agree on part 2. If the judges have been negative on the narration all year long, IMO it would be gone. So if they do win...it will due [/i]to the totality of the show, not despite any one thing you happen to dislike.

I understand your point and don't disagree with it. The narration is an integral part of the show, so it will be impossible to assess the degree to which it helped or held back the show. (Unless the audio for the Music GE Judge is on the DVD and he or she says something like, "Cadets, I really wish you didn't allow your narrators to talk over the music. By doing this, you are forcing me to choose between listening to the incredible music that is brilliantly played and your narrators… and I'd far rather hear the corps play!") Because I do not believe the narration is needed (or at least as much of it), I was offering my opinion that the Cadets might win, despite the narration. Much the same they might win this season, despite an unusually low guard placement (for the Cadets). It looks like the guard might finish no higher than 4th and maybe as low as 6th or 7th, but at least we can easily quantify the impact of the guard, unlike the impact of the narration.

Everyone should trust me on this one... there's no need to fear this outcome and the resultant impact on future shows. Amplification and voice are now "legal" and DCI will not repeal its ruling on this issue. Regardless of what happens with the Cadets this season, in future seasons, some corps will use voice because they feel it adds a needed dimension to their show and others will refrain because it is not appropriate or "necessary" in their shows. Some titles will be won by corps that use voice and others will be won by corps that do not. In fact, some corps will win a title in one year using voice and then win a title in another year without using voice (perhaps even the Cadets). These things will happen and anyone who feels it will all be because of the Cadets is giving them far too much credit.