A rock and a hard place

[2000Cadet]

At this point, it really doesn't matter to me who wins because the top three corps are really good. I will be happy if BD or Cadets wins because judging from watching the shows live last night and the night before, either one of them could take it. BD's hornline is powerful and I can't get enough of them. Cadets drill is crazy and cool. So either way, I will be happy with the results.

[dccorpsfan]

You don't win 11 championships by taking it easy.

[thecadet20012001]

Ahem, ur *cough* bitter *cough* ...

WHY WOULD'NT YOU WANT BD TO PLAY HARDER SHOWS? ITS LAME THEY DON'T. ITS LIKE A PRO FOOTBALL TEAM WITH AN ALL STAR QB AND 3 JERRY RICE'S AND ALL THEY DO IS RUN THE BALL. WOULD THAT MAKE SENSE?

[Sexyguardcap]

I want My Devils to win as much as any Devils fan. But, last night.Whew! The Cadets came out with an attitiude! And, they have a show that is technically more difficult than ours, marching, brass and guard. If we get the right judges we'll win. If they get the judges they'll win. We are both going to be at our best

Oh, Don't the best judges judge finals?

Edited August 11, 2007 by Sexyguardcap

[X DM]

Respectfully disagree. The Blue Devils 2007 show is terrific. When one listens to it on audio the blend of brass and percussion is sheer power, and it blends better than any other corps in my opinion. If people think their charts are not demanding..... well..... I just got to disagree with that too. BD does a lot of subtle and difficult visual moves that may not be fully appreciated by some . The cross cadence (with different step tempos) in the mid stanza between the brass, guard, and percussion is innovative, demanding, and executed brilliantly. No Corps this year marches so fundamentally sound as the 2007 DCI Champion. Spacing, coverage, files, distance, visual pattern execution, equipment position uniformity, feet,, etc is precisely executed. Their guard is outstanding. They had the complete package this year, and won all the major shows. There is nothing unsatisfactory to their Championship at all in my viiew. Nobody executed their interesting show better than the 2007 BD. They will be worthy champions in my opinion.

Edited August 11, 2007 by X DM

[sardomus]

WHY WOULD'NT YOU WANT BD TO PLAY HARDER SHOWS? ITS LAME THEY DON'T. ITS LIKE A PRO FOOTBALL TEAM WITH AN ALL STAR QB AND 3 JERRY RICE'S AND ALL THEY DO IS RUN THE BALL. WOULD THAT MAKE SENSE?

"Loud Noises!"

[carter90210]

You're a very ignorant person, and your statements only prove it. BD only looks easy because they make it look easy. Their drill is the most movement ive seen out of that corps in a long long time. I'll agree Cadets have a very fine ensemble, however, my major point of contention is their narration. I'd be perfectly happy with them winning if they just cut all the narration. They won't. So go BD!

Oh God, this stupid argument again. BD's drill looks easy because it *IS* easy.

[cavalier1995]

I guess if BD tried to do other corps drill that looks hard, suddenly it would look easy...

Ugh. It looks easier because it is! The talent level of the marchers does not change the way drill is formed or how it moves from set to set.

[LoveKathyG]

I had not seen Cadets before last night and I was braced for the worst.. but you know (and I may very well be in the minority on this), I like that show. I GET IT. I really do get it. I think the narration works.. I even think the show would be less good without it (and I am NO FAN of narration). But the first viewing of this show.. late in the season as the finished product.. I got it. The voices of many in the first half are talking about the things they believe and bring with them into the whole.. and how those beliefs all kind of work together to create this amazing whole thing.. but then the second half (people like to call that the emo kid -- which I disagree with.. but that's another issue entirely) is about how the WHOLE and all the beliefs that made it so great impacted an individual which explains why he's the only one talking through the whole second half.. I mean... I even get giddy when I talk about it. I really get it.. and even if that's not the intent.. that's what I get from it and that's part of what makes it so cool. I think my concern before seeing the show was that the narration was telling me what to think about stuff.. or what to see.. or how to interpret.. but when I finally saw and heard it, that wasn't the case at all. So.. couple that with the incredible music they're playing (I'm not completely sold on the drill.. though I know what they're doing is extremely difficult in parts.. I think the Cavaliers have them here).. I think I was watching this year's champion last night.

Ah! You you illustrate the point I've been making all season. Cadets narration is insulting exactly BECAUSE it is so literal. EVERYONE "gets" Cadets show on first viewing. What's not to get? There's no subtlty. There's no nuance. Even the contemplative part about choices is hit-you-over-the-head preachy.

Can you imagine a painting on which the artist literally paints the words "This red streak is here because I am angry at my mother?" Who would consider that interesting or innovative? Kind of the same thing with Cadets, in my opinion.

I'm a writer by trade. (Hard to believe with all the grammatical and spelling errors I make, right?) One of the first things you learn in any kind of creative writing is that using a narrative voice is a cheap fix to a story that can be better strengthened by finding ways to weave descriptions and story arch in more inventive ways. Of course, there are exceptions. Some authors use narration brilliantly - Faulkner, for example. In general, though, it's used as a crutch. Narration, for Cadets, is a crutch.

It's even better known in screen writing that if you can't make a script work or if you discovered you've missed necessary shots when you're in post-production, one fix is to add narration. But that's a LAST resort. There's always a lot of tittering in the Hollywood community when a movie's shoot has wrapped and major actors have to come back in later to add narration because that's the only way the production team could get the movie to work. That's the way Cadets show comes off.

For me, the only way to get through the Cadets show is to imagine it as "Young Person's Guide - Part II." As a kid, I loved YPGttO. If I imagine Cadets show as a break in the event that illustrates how a drum corps and dc show is developed, it's all good. But just as I don't want a glossery of terms, no matter how well written, or a forward or prologue to win a Pulitzer, neither do I want Cadets show to win a chapionship.

Art is at its best when it feels like you've discovered a special secret between the artist and you - when you open some mystical conduit of understanding, when you think about things differently, when you see things in ways you hadn't before or maybe even in ways they didn't previously exist. Cadets show and use of narration blocks me from having this opportunity. It's just not interesting, the show isn't inventive, and worst of all, it prohibits me from being inventive with them.

[parkbench]

LoveKathyG and Stef make very interesting points that get to (IMO) the root of the "state of the state" 2007 DCI.

Parity in our venue has revealed itself in a more intellectual artsy-fartsy portpori (sp?) of offerings. Mature fans (age, exposure, historical, etc.) are having a hard time separating their emotions for sectional-based connection -- snarelines, guard stuff, power horns, drill moves, passion,... From KISS principle of BD to a more cerebral approach of Cadets to the attempts in between of whimsical (Crown, Coats) and in-your-face translation of pop / wow (Cavaliers, Colts) as well as concepts (Phantom, SCV, Boston). The "young-un's" with due respect, are still "reacting" to their gut instincts without experience (corps marching or otherwise) to dis-associate instantaneous "cool" or "wow" factors without regard for their basis.

And by parity I really mean, the talent and performance 'capabilities' of the corps and the design teams is astounding. The technical expetise of the performers is almost equal in the top 8-ish. Thus, the above approaches to reaching audiences within the boundaries of the judging criteria has driven a very broad portfolio of "shows" performed excellently to those designs. e.g., BD is exceptional in THEIR production, its intent and delivery. So is Cadets, Cavies, etc. But the DCI adjucation is attempting to judge all these bags in one basket.

Today, IMO and evolving since 2004, is we simply HAVE NOT put a definitive criteria for us all to agree on how the different elements will be "factored" into scoring. How do we plus-minus contribution of narration, incredible "make-up or costuming" or props of guards and corps, singing, etc.

Adjucation Guidance for Narration & Props Contribution to GE (Vis & Mus) Caption:

0 Not relevant to performance

+1 tenth Positively contributes to general effect of visual focus or music presentation

+2 tenth Positively contributes to general effect of visual focus and music presentation

-1 tenth Negatively detracts from general effect of visual focus or music presentation

-2 tenth Negatively detracts from general effect of visual focus and music presentation

Would this help us all to more quantitatively put some structure to our arguments?

Conclusion IMO. BD is incredible at what they do. But so are Cadets at their presentation. Cavaliers simply has me awed at artistic and interpretative design and its exeution. It has become almost incomparable to judge different shows like Cadets, Cavaliers, PR or Crown or anyone else. And vice versa. And that is crux of our challenge. We've mixed metaphors and attempted to put a essentially turn it into a popularity contest.

Whew, I guess I should vent more often instead of lurking in background (or NOT).