leadsop97 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 everyone knows the risks of running a div II/III corps. it's all good. those who want to compete will compete by any means necessary. sometimes it just gets to the point where you can't anymore. I think having finals in one spot for 10 years will be good for division II/III because there will be some consistency in cost and such. obviously it will not cost the same every year because of gas and membership, but you get my point. any level of consistency is going to help. it's a fairly central location, I think (not too good with geography and haven't actually looked to find out), but hopefully you all understand what I'm saying. after the first year in Indy, corps can kinda look at that, and figure out almost exactly what is going to need to be done to do it next year, etc... I think in 2-3 years we'll be seeing more corps in div II/III since there ARE a lot of people trying to start up new corps and such. Many times they just don't get the membership, and I have a feeling that a guaranteed going to finals will help that out. I know I wouldn't want to march a corps not going to finals in any given year. so I'm hoping this helps. especially for newly formed corps in the midwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalloutTheory05 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 define a "full tour"...go ahead, i dare ya. Since DCI has never done it, why do you pass this judgement? This is not meant as a blast on you but more to point out that DCI has never defined what makes a full tour so people that talk about full touring or not really need to think about it for a second. If you add the hours and miles it takes to go from SoCal to NorCal, back and forth and then the rest of the tour that PC (or Academy or other groups that don't do 40 shows) did, you will probably be surprised to find that it is very similar to those East Coast corps that made the trip out west. In the midwest you can drive for 3 hours and cross 3 state lines...in CA you can go 3 hours and barely drive through LA county (specially depending on traffic), so please when discussing a full tour, be careful in choosing your words. Woa easy there killer.......I said not a full tour because on another occasion I was criticized for saying they go on a full tour......they just dont go to as many show as other div 1 corps...there happy??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shostahoosier Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 everyone knows the risks of running a div II/III corps. it's all good. those who want to compete will compete by any means necessary. sometimes it just gets to the point where you can't anymore. I think having finals in one spot for 10 years will be good for division II/III because there will be some consistency in cost and such. obviously it will not cost the same every year because of gas and membership, but you get my point. any level of consistency is going to help. it's a fairly central location, I think (not too good with geography and haven't actually looked to find out), but hopefully you all understand what I'm saying. after the first year in Indy, corps can kinda look at that, and figure out almost exactly what is going to need to be done to do it next year, etc... I think in 2-3 years we'll be seeing more corps in div II/III since there ARE a lot of people trying to start up new corps and such. Many times they just don't get the membership, and I have a feeling that a guaranteed going to finals will help that out. I know I wouldn't want to march a corps not going to finals in any given year. so I'm hoping this helps. especially for newly formed corps in the midwest. I think I a lot of new Div II/III corps fail because they plan poorly and push themselves to do too much their first season. I see it all the time here on DCP. A new Div II/III corps is announced. The corps' founder wants input/donations to help the startup. They then announce that they're going to do a full traveling tour, budgeted for a 60 member corps, playing some esoteric and insanely difficult repertoire with all newly designed uniforms, instruments and a road caravan. People need to start slow and plan. Build a financial base...then build the corps... ...I dont know if people have patience anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I heard a nasty rumor from a DCI "official" that they lost a boatload of $$$ at Murfreesboro this year and, due to that, the II/III corps were getting zilch for their DCI show appearances this year. Anyone that can confirm or deny this? Sounds pretty lousy, if true. This rumor has got to be false. I don't know what Murfreesboro financial results are for this year but there would be no tie between that show (which is by definition the only show that is exclusively for the Top 8 corps in Division I) and any payouts that would go to Division II & III groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 One other point before this rant ends....the latest DCI survey says that of current DCI marching members who answered the survey...only 20% claim to have marched a II/III corps prior to marching a Div. I. This is an important statistic simply because if you are NOT feeding the hand that pays you...soon...they don't pay you anymore. Three reactions (so far) to that "statistic": 1. Are the kids in corps that advance from II/III to division I counted among those who "marched a division II/III corps"? I wonder exactly how that survey question was worded.... 2. II/III is not here solely to serve as a feeder to division I. Why should we expect the majority of division I marchers to have II/III experience? Some II/III members like what they're doing - so much so that they stay and age out with their II/III corps. If they were all moving on to division I, that would be a sign of failure of the II/III programs. 3. And again, why should we expect the majority of division I members to be supplied by II/III corps? There are 26 II/III corps, and 4,000 competitive high-school marching bands. With that in mind, 20% is an impressive proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 This rumor has got to be false. I don't know what Murfreesboro financial results are for this year but there would be no tie between that show (which is by definition the only show that is exclusively for the Top 8 corps in Division I) and any payouts that would go to Division II & III groups. OK, I'll be a little more specific. I heard that DCI lost $80K on the Murfreesboro show, and a combined $180K on all the regionals this year. Adding in all the $$$ they had to spend on housing in Pasadena, they do not have the cash to pay any Div II/III fees this year. Again, this was a statement made by a part-time DCI official. I guess we will have to wait to see if any of the financial figures are released at this winter's meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 OK, I'll be a little more specific. I heard that DCI lost $80K on the Murfreesboro show, and a combined $180K on all the regionals this year. Adding in all the $$$ they had to spend on housing in Pasadena, they do not have the cash to pay any Div II/III fees this year. Again, this was a statement made by a part-time DCI official. I guess we will have to wait to see if any of the financial figures are released at this winter's meetings. I am not trying to give you grief but - again, I don't think so. There is no correlation between DCI's profitability at a given group of Division I regionals and its payments to Division II & III corps. There are many many times on DCP that it is stated that DCI does not pay any money to Division II & III groups. Because of that, I checked around and asked some people who should know. Here is my understanding: The first kind of pay that II & III groups get is for what we used to call early season shows. Some of the pay scales and other procedures remain from the old DCW, DCE and DCM days and have been grandfathered into current practices. These payments are basically part of the show contract that the show sponsor pays. DCI pays this money directly to the corps as the season goes on. (The corps would have the money in the bank before the Div I regional even happened.) The second kind of payments are when one or two II & III units appear in primarily Division I events on the Division I tour. Often there is a payment for these kind of appearances - also included as part of the show contract - also paid out as the season moves along. The third kind of payment is based exclusively on the Division II & III tour plus other II & III activities (like DVD sales). While on tour, the corps agree to not be paid a per performance fee for each show. This allows the tour to happen because the show contracts for those shows are now much lower than a normal contract - which, in turn, attracts more potential show sponsors. Basically, if the Division II & III tour is profitable, then all of the corps who went on the tour get a proportionate piece of the profits. If the Division II & III tour is not profitable, then DCI eats the difference. More often than not there is a year end payout (in October or November, after all the real numbers are calculated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadacorps Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Hey, I noticed that you Marched Fever in 05.You know Joe Avery? Was he the blonde snare guy with the longer hair?.. 05 seems like ages ago.. If I'm wrong, fill me in on which section he marched and I could probably remember.. The corps was pretty big that year for Div II though. (over 100 if I remember right) Edited August 21, 2007 by Canadacorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosski47 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Was he the blonde snare guy with the longer hair?..05 seems like ages ago.. If I'm wrong, fill me in on which section he marched and I could probably remember.. The corps was pretty big that year for Div II though. (over 100 if I remember right) Yeah you were right. He's a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Myusik4Jakassez Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I don't want to say too much, but this is a general idea of what the Raiders have in mind: We're staying Division II in 2008, and most likely in the years that follow. MAYBE we will go Division I someday, but that's a very long way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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