On the Propriety of Booing

[LAMystreaux]

I fail to see the correlation or rationale behind this. Because there are "only 20 or so relevant World Class Junior Drum and Bugle Corps" it's OK to boo them? Doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense, period.

[MikeD]

Gorgo........help me out......what does being paid have to do with anything ?

Makes the difference between a professional and an amateur. Do you support booing a community theater production of "Fiddler on the Roof" because you don't like the way they choreographed "To Life" or "Tradition"?

Personally, I don't think it appropriate to boo any artistic endeavor, be if paid or unpaid.

[MikeD]

I didn't boo The Cadets on Thursday night, my boos and jeers were directed straight at George Hopkins.

No, you booed The Cadets. Rationalize it in your own mind all you want, but at the end of the day you booed a group of 135 young people who have put their hearts and souls into perfecting their show as best they could to present it to....YOU...the audience member.

I think he is an absolute crock and tried to give his corps and unfair advantage. The Cavaliers had just performed on the same exact field prior to The Cadets taking the field, and did you see Jeff Fiedler out there demanding that the field be repainted? NO! Just like you didn't see that from any of the other 22 DRUM CORPS! George Hopkins, suck it up and go home, cause even a crying baby sometimes does not get his rattle. <**>

Fact: the yardlines hashes were supposed to be relined at the break. The hashes weren't.

Fact: No, the field was NOT in the same shape for the Cadets as it was for the Cavies, as the Cavies had done their own part of degrade the field merely be performing THEIR show on it.

Fact: Fiedler did not ask for the hashes to be redone. He could have, if he so chose.

Fact: Hoppy DID ask, as he found them to be degraded too much for his corps. It was his right to do so.

Fact: You booed The Cadets. The were on the field...you booed...they bore the brunt of it...as wintnessed by quotes fro members in these threads.

Opinion: You engaged in totally boorish behavior by booing.

[JimF-LowBari]

Rephrasing my earlier question: When there are over 120+ people on a football field and you are in the stands. How do you direct your booing to one person on the field?

[chris ncsu]

There was indeed audible booing at Cadets on finals night, 'shut up!' during mic testing, random sometimes insulting comments, and much laughter during closer narration.

I know it's easy to make fun of the message at the end, and/or the way it's delivered, because of the cheesiness...but I actually can relate to that message, and because much of the audience has a strong musical background I bet many in the audience do, too. I was sort of almost personally offended at all the laughter at this bit.

I still found it amazing, listening to people around me, that people couldn't at least see how good this corps was. It's one thing to not enjoy a show (there are plenty of shows I don't enjoy, and corps I as a whole who I generally don't like), but such rabid, rude behavior (IMO) was disappointing.

Just what I felt...

[byline]

By the way..... George Hopkins doesn't know me from the next schmoe in the world. A couple of summers ago, I emailed him with some of my thoughts about Cadets show. (It was the year they did the controversial flag raising). It wasn't a very complimentary email (though it wasn't rude or full of one liners). He actually e-mailed me. And responded to my thoughts. And asked me MORE questions. And I responded. And then he responded. No. I'm NOT kidding. I didn't have to act like some trashy wrestling fan to get my point accross. AND <gasp> I actually gained a better understanding to the thought process that went into the show.

What?!! No!!! Direct communication . . . actually . . . works? :P

[byline]

Then why the sudden outcry here re The Cadets ?

For some of us, it isn't a "sudden" outcry. As I stated earlier, I've been complaining about booing for a long time now . . . including that directed at Star. My point about not liking a lot of what Star did, but never booing them, is not a new one.

[Dan Baker]

To Dan Baker...

I'm glad to see that you put some thought into your opinion, and obviously you've been around the activity for a while given your recollections of Star 93. But as someone who has also been around for a while, I want to remind you that the fans' actions have consequences.

- Are you happy that Star of Indiana dropped out of competition after 1993?

- Do you think the abuse they got at the hands of (some) fans had something to do with their decision?

- Do you feel DCI was improved, especially in the 90s, by the departure of a world champion caliber corps?

- If George Hopkins were to consider his options after this year and decide that the Cadets should pursue something different, do you think drum corps would be better off for it?

I loved Star 1990-1993. I thought their shows were fantastic, and I thought their musicianship reached a level that has not really been equaled since. No offense, but I really wish you had gotten a hot dog rather than contribute to their departure from the activity. And I would give you the same advice if you don't like the Cadets this year, or any corps next year.

I guarantee that no matter how much you dislike a show, someone sitting near you is loving it. Why spoil their enjoyment of it? Why take something away from performers who are giving their best effort? Trust me, withholding your applause or leaving the stands communicates the same thing, but still shows respect to everyone involved.

1. I am not happy that Star left DCI after the 1993 season. Their 1991 production was incredible and their 1990 show was even better. However, I am also not happy that dozens if not hundreds of other drum corps have been pushed out of the activity because of the actions and decisions of the handful of organizations (including the Cadets) that control this activity.

2. Star's decision to leave, as other have pointed out, had absolutely nothing to do with the response their 1993 show generated.

3. Of course DCI is not improved by the departure of a corps, whether a "world-champion caliber corps" like Star or small, "home-grown" corps the likes of the Illiana Lancers, General Butler Vagabonds, or Northern Aurora. However, since no corps has left the activity because it was booed, I must admit I fail to see the relevance of this issue.

4. See no. 3 above. All performers want feedback; that's the point of doing it. Of course, you hope it's going to be positive feedback, but if it's negative feedback, you, as a performer, have 2 choices: Either change what you're doing (or how you're doing it) to get the positive feedback, or soak it in and relish it, rejoicing in the fact that you were able to provoke such a reaction. If the director of the Cadets doesn't want to receive negative feedback for his actions, I would like to believe that he's mature enough to change what he's doing rather than be a baby and take his ball home. On the other hand, if he keeps leading the Cadets down the path they are on, then it is safe to assume he's chosen the second option (soak and relish) and should be preparing his "students" for the possible response.

Regarding some other comments made in other posts:

"I am willing to bet that the OP would tell you now that it will be OK to boo the members of the 2008 Cadets if a similar production is fielded." Yes, if the spectator is so inclined. See response to question 4 above.

I marched. However, because these are my opinions and not the opinions of the corps I marched for or worked with, I have purposefully left off my "credentials". Some forum-searching will turn them up if anyone is truly interested.

Regarding "my corps", I don't have one. When I was first introduced to the activity, I quickly became a fan of the Santa Clara Vanguard, the Madison Scouts, the 27th Lancers, the Bridgemen, and the Boston Crusaders. Today, however, everyone of the "Top 6" corps have at least one entry on my favorite shows list. For the Cadets, I loved 1985, 1989, 1992, and 1993, and there 1987 production of Appalachian Spring is in my top 3 (despite the fact that, as any of my friends can attest to, I despise Copland).

I have friends who marched Star (including 1993) and some of my closest friends marched Cadets, and they all know exactly how I feel about those corps and their shows.

During my years as a drum corps member, I have experienced boos. Again, however, they were as the results were being announced and were clearly directed to the judges. However, in other arenas, I have been booed, and just as with the Bridgemen in 1977, it always lit a fire under me. Personally, I love it.

Trust me, withholding your applause or leaving the stands communicates absolutely nothing unless you're the only one in the stands to begin with. No corps member has ever thought "Ah man, that was a great show I just did, but too bad that guy in the 18th row just inside the side one 40 didn't clap for me."

Dan Baker

[byline]

So... you'd boo at a middle school basketball game?

Judging by the appalling behavior of some parents at Little League games, hockey games, etc., yes, apparently they would.

[madscout96]

So...following this logic, lets have a Q and A session here.

Q: Is there at least one (or a hundred, or a thousand), person / people in the stands that dont like a particular corps. Maybe they have a thing against them, or maybe they just dont care for the show this year, or maybe they just dont care for one little part of it...

A: Yes

Q: Should those musicians be prepared to deal with boos from these people

A: Apparently, yes

Ok, little game over. Every corps, yes every corps (even the troopers :P ), has fans, and not-so-much fans. What it seems like many of you are suggesting is that since musicians should be able to deal with adversity, that we should give them adversity just for their betterment. If every fan booed every little thing they didnt care for, we would have an entire night of performances / reactions like the cadets, or worse. Old rivalries, corps that knocked you out of finals, or that you just couldn't catch, shows that you dont think should be scoring so high, too easy, too hard, too slow, too much dance, too much park and blow, too much rolling, too much horses, too much stripping on the field....lets just boo it all, after all, its just a way to express an opinion, and the kids can handle it. You can say that the cadets this year went over the line, which makes it different, but to me, its an issue of principle and quantity. It turned out the way it did because more people thought along the same lines, but an angry mob does not make a correct crowd.

Its amazing how people can justify deplorable behavior with the argument that the kids should be able to handle it, and it will make them better. Maybe it did make them better people, but answer me this; if it was you out there on that field, would you want people booing you so you could become a better person?...i think not. Its sad that someone else mentioned how he saw some other young kids booing everything the cavies did (yes they were bd fans...no matter). The fact is, we are not only allowing, but encouraging this behavior, and something will eventually have to give. Either the booing will fade away into a more honorable crowd, or, we'll just turn it into a sport where we yell creative chants as a corps 'student section', and spin hypno discs behind the dm's to throw off the ensemble timing. While were at it, lets all clap slightly off beat, and sing rocky top every time our favorite corps makes a good move. (no offense tenn. fans)

OK, do you really expect that all that could happen? If we don't stop this booing trend now, that it could escalate into something this extreme, or something even mildly resembling to it? As has been discussed in this thread earlier, booing has been around in drum corps for decades. It hasn't escalated into anything you've described. It hasn't gone away, but it is contained.