Time for Rifles to Go?

[kevingamin]

That's an awesome idea, actually.

Too bad LEDs aren't allowed.

Who said they're not? They're battery powered, after all, and '85 Madison proved that battery powered objects (such as a vibraphone) are legal. They also proved that lighting (flash bulbs during '78 Madison's Star Wars)drum solo is allowed, as well.

[BigDale]

Is this where a group of bassoons plays the Bonanza theme?

Because I'd pay to hear that.

No, really. B)

A nice "basson-nova" would be great! :P

[MarimbasaurusRex]

They've totally have it both ways for a good 20 years or more. Surely two decades of nonsense can't persist, can it? I know Strom Thurmond had a long and storied career, so maybe it can.

I have no idea what Strom Thurmond has to do with it, but... two decades of nonsense = little growth, if any. I understand that drum corps people "get it," but many regular folks outside drum corps circles do not. It just looks odd to put a GUN in the hands of a person in a leotard or whatever. I'm talking real world perspective.

[Malibu]

You must be hanging out with some very strange people. Those I've taken (in the past) never asked such questions. They were highly impressed with show and professionalism that existed on the field.

Neither do flags or sabres. What does throwing/spinning a banner and an obsolute weapon has to do with drum corps?

But drowings in back yard pools is much higher than anything related to guns. People still put pools in their backyard. Silly people for putting in a more dangerous weapon.

There is something viseral about seeing unison rifles, both spinning and tossed, that elicite excitment. Maybe because of the size compared the invisible sabre? I haven't seen a good five done with a flag. Why even have a colorguard. They have a military of guarding the colors. I think they need to be removed also. They are also outdated.

Are you trying to be the next Rosie O'Donnell?

If you want to go in the history of moving flag, there is some document dated 1637 called CODICE = a ancient book named "L'ARTE DI MANEGGIAR L'INSEGNA, the art of flag handle in this book with images are described movements, technique, ect. It was considered as a special sport useful to prepare to the use of the sword.

As far as not using rifles for guard, right now in WGI, spinning other pieces of equipment in place of the rifle, for example the "S" or Comma rifles is not considered legal equipment and will not be apart of the T&P judges sheet.

I like to see a good rifle line with correct technique as well as awesome body moves under it.

I say, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!"

[MarimbasaurusRex]

Have you seen guard costumes since the 80s? It's about the lycra-spandex blends now.. maybe some crushed velvet.

Did you see Blue Stars guard in 2006? Guess not.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

So where does that leave the Cavies? Not chiffon dresses, not military uniforms...

And I think you can have it both ways. As long as it is done well, who cares what they are wearing?

OK, make that dance leotards. You may not care what they are wearing, because you are used to it. But, many potential fans (and funding sources!) look at it with a big question mark.

Why are KIDS carrying FAKE GUNS and DANCING around? It's a fair question asked by many many people who don't post on DCP or go to drum corps shows, but instead see that kind of stuff and just turn away. People here want drum corps to grow in popularity, but then don't want to accept the many reasons why it remains a "niche" activity that is harder and harder to justify and promote.

[BDMOM]

I have taken the time and wasted a good 10 minutes of my life reading this ridiculous thread.

On page 9 someone wrote that "guards would just have to adjust faster" (or something to that effect)

This would be like asking a brass player to change type/style of horn plus their mouth piece every year they marched.

Maybe that would put everyone at the same ad/disadvantage

As far as girls in leotards spinning (OMG) guns, this is not the 70's. Kids these days do not spend the entire show on one piece of equipment.

They must be proficient (note, not superstar performers) on several pieces of equipment to even qualify for the weapons line. Even when they are good enough to make it, they spend less than half their time on any one weapon (points in the show when the designer wants the effect of things flying through the air.) These kids spend lots of extra time on the side to excel and keep their spots, and this is with standardized equipment. There are hundreds of items that guards have spun over the years, from rubber hoses to baguettes ( ) No one is stopping these groups from innovation. The reason why groups come back to the rifle is because it is an effective and standard piece of equipment. We spun rifles in the late 70's-80's because you could buy a rifle from the military surplus, take out the barrel and trigger, cut it down and do amazing things with it. Today's performance rifles are symbols for the symbol, nothing more.

I have been hard corps military with the Kingsmen, danced and pranced with the Blue Devils and freaked with the Renegades.

I have seen all sides of this activity and believe that there is room for anything one can dream up out on the field. To suggest that a field performance contributes to someone's delinquency is ludicrous.

I think I'll switch to contra next year!

[ScoutSpinner03]

Greg, let's face it. There are no guards like that anymore. The Kingsmen have an actual rifle line where the rifle is the center of the focus. Guards today are completely different with the body and movement as the center of focus. Rifles are not spun anymore, the tempo's are just too fast for basic spins and double time.

While I do not agree with the OP reasoning, he may have a point on another basis. One of the things I have noticed over the last 10 or so years, is with so much emphasis on the body, movement, and costumes is that rifle work is starting to get lost.

I cannot tell you how many guards I saw this year where some really interesting rifle work got lost behind the consistant movement of the body, or because it was being done as if the goal posts where the crowd. Sometimes the rifle just seemed out of place amoung the pretty femanine(spl) costumes, or it just didn't fit in with the thematic costume at all.

Let's face it, many of the traditions of the colorguard have already been sacrificed. There are no rifle lines to speak of, there is no real spinning to speak of. All of the things that made the rifle central to the guard are all gone.

While I wish that designers would make the rifle itself more the center piece of the rifle line, I have no confidence it will ever happen. Its too "old school".

This is the one thing about DCP that annoys me.

People who marched during the old school days and saying how things on todays field isnt "real drum corps".

Colorguard has evolved just like the other sections of the corps. Its a pagentry ARTFORM now. Guard is now judged on the triad (body+drill+equipment work) and how well the members succeed at the triad. Rifles will ALWAYS be an integral part of guard equipment. Its usage will continue to be experimented with and guard will grow as pagentry and art and an EXPRESSION of the music.

Rifles are still spun. What we do is spinning. The basic consecutives and double time is technique and often taught in technique blocks. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 90% of DCI rifle lines can do double time...its a warmup, it teaches us how to manuever the rifle and makes us better overall spinners. Will there be a double time feature in a show? Odds are in WGI most likely, but rarely in DCI. The ART of spinning has grown to where there are new things that showcase a rifle line (catching tosses at port, doing turnarounds, catching under the leg....etc). The rifle itself is still the focus, but NOW the performer has a movement responsibility.

Take a good look. Rifles are still spun. Spinning as grown into something new, that...once again...many people on DCP dont like. Ive seen many videos of corps from the 70s and 80s and I can almost guarantee that many of todays spinners would have trouble getting through a show with that much double time. Its admired and respected because it is soo extremely precise and impressive. I hope one day people will look back on these current years and what guards are doing and be impressed and enjoy what they see...instead of critiquing every little thing and repeatedly say how things should not have changed.

[HockeyDad]

I understand that drum corps people "get it," but many regular folks outside drum corps circles do not.

Who cares what people who have no interest in drum corps think?

[DarrenE]

Clearly due to to their blatant endorsement of gun, sword, and spear violence the entire guard has to go. It makes me sick watching those hate mongerers out there waving their thinly veiled threats of American imperialistic violence. Don't even get me started on the "dancers" with their obvious flaunting that they can take you down bare handed with martial arts.

They should all be replaced by the kind gentle giants, the low brass.

Won't somebody think of the children!!!