SHOULD DCI ALLOW SALE OF ALCOHOL AT SHOWS?

[MelloDisciple]

It baffles me that the point made for not allowing alcohol sales at a DCI show is that it is an all age or family oriented event. Sporting events such as ball games are all-age wouldn't you say? I was aware that the temperance movement ended already.

Last time I checked the age limit of legal consumption in the US was still 21. If underage persons cannot purchase or consume an alcoholic beverage anyway then why is it unnecessary or inappropriate for someone that is of legal age to do so? Alcohol consumption by someone of legal age in the presence of someone who isn't hasn't been censored at sporting events, concerts, theme parks, or restaurants. It is a privilege as an adult over 21 to consume an alcoholic beverage. It should not be taboo to do so in the presence of those who cannot.

Edited August 25, 2007 by MelloDisciple

[critter]

It baffles me that the point made for not allowing alcohol sales at a DCI show is that it is an all age or family oriented event. Sporting events such as ball games are all-age wouldn't you say? I was aware that the temperance movement ended already.

Last time I checked the age limit of legal consumption in the US was still 21. If underage persons cannot purchase or consume an alcoholic beverage anyway then why is it unnecessary or inappropriate for someone that is of legal age to do so? Alcohol consumption by someone of legal age in the presence of someone who isn't hasn't been censored at sporting events, concerts, theme parks, or restaurants. It is a privilege as an adult over 21 to consume an alcoholic beverage. It should not be taboo to do so in the presence of those who cannot.

I understand your arguments and agree with them 100%. I do think, however, that talking about this being an all age event really refers to the fact that it is essentially a youth activity where most of the performers are not of drinking age. Sure, MLB games are all age events, but the focus there is on watching adults perform their skills, where in this situation you really only have a small percentage who are of age.

I also agree that the vast majority of responsible adults should not be punished for those who can't control their behavior. If I try to monitor my actions and get punished because of the actions of others, why should I even try to act responsibly? The least fair thing to do is to treat all people the same. DCI should not remove alcohol because some can't consume it responsibly. How can be ever learn to be mature citizens if we remove things that might lead them to act without regard for others. Let them act out and then drop the hammer on them. It's the American way.

[MelloDisciple]

I understand your arguments and agree with them 100%. I do think, however, that talking about this being an all age event really refers to the fact that it is essentially a youth activity where most of the performers are not of drinking age. Sure, MLB games are all age events, but the focus there is on watching adults perform their skills, where in this situation you really only have a small percentage who are of age.

I also agree that the vast majority of responsible adults should not be punished for those who can't control their behavior. If I try to monitor my actions and get punished because of the actions of others, why should I even try to act responsibly? The least fair thing to do is to treat all people the same. DCI should not remove alcohol because some can't consume it responsibly. How can be ever learn to be mature citizens if we remove things that might lead them to act without regard for others. Let them act out and then drop the hammer on them. It's the American way.

Right on. Funny though...its ok to watch adults while being under the influence but in order to view the youth we must take extra precaution not to look at them with intoxicated eyes. Will it rub off if we do?

Edited August 26, 2007 by MelloDisciple

[skevinp]

Normally I wouldn't care if they served beer, but at finals a nice guy who sat behind us all 3 nights started to get progressively louder. Around the time when Crown came on, my daughter asked him to please be quiet, and he got quite aggravated A fist-fight almost broke out. So now I vote for no alcohol.

Then he should have been removed. Can't hold your liquor -- expect to be removed. But the solution isn't to take things away from all the responsible folks who are simply enjoying themselves. Talk about lowering us all to the lowest common denominator. Believe me, I feel your pain -- but I'm sick and tired of having to adjust my lifestyle and enjoyment to accommodate folks who can't (or won't) be responsible for themselves ..... :ramd:

Yeah, that's a great solution. After this poor guy (if not his daughter) gets punched in the mouth, people have to stand up and yell for security during the beautiful opening of Crown's show that many people have come thousands of miles to see and hear, as others around them have to jump up and pull this idiot away, people falling over seats, hurting themselves, yelling and scuffling through the opener, preventing hundreds of people around them from enjoying the show and distracting the attention of thousand within view of incident, security shows up and has to break it up, shout people down, determine who started it throughout the second number, and then drag the screaming culprit (and hopefully not any of the innocent people who tried to break it up) out of the crowded row and down the aisle during the third number as the medical personnel arrive and treat this guys bleeding mouth during william tell and help him down the stairs with his daughter during the finale. But all that was worth it so that you didn't have to adjust your "lifestyle and enjoyment."

These "freedom" arguments might be reasonable in other contexts but they are badly misplaced here. This isn't a matter of the government telling you you can't have a beer in your own home, at a bar or a restaurant or any other venue that wants to provide it to you. It is a matter of DCI having the right to decide what is in the best interest of the activity, the organization and its fans.

Edited August 26, 2007 by skevinp

[MelloDisciple]

Normally I wouldn't care if they served beer, but at finals a nice guy who sat behind us all 3 nights started to get progressively louder. Around the time when Crown came on, my daughter asked him to please be quiet, and he got quite aggravated A fist-fight almost broke out. So now I vote for no alcohol.

Yeah, that's a great solution. After this poor guy (if not his daughter) gets punched in the mouth, people have to stand up and yell for security during the beautiful opening of Crown's show that many people have come thousands of miles to see and hear, as others around them have to jump up and pull this idiot away, people falling over seats, hurting themselves, yelling and scuffling through the opener, preventing hundreds of people around them from enjoying the show and distracting the attention of thousand within view of incident, security shows up and has to break it up, shout people down, determine who started it throughout the second number, and then drag the screaming culprit (and hopefully not any of the innocent people who tried to break it up) out of the crowded row and down the aisle during the third number as the medical personnel arrive and treat this guys bleeding mouth during william tell and help him down the stairs with his daughter during the finale. But all that was worth it so that you didn't have to adjust your "lifestyle and enjoyment."

These "freedom" arguments might be reasonable in other contexts but they are badly misplaced here. This isn't a matter of the government telling you you can't have a beer in your own home, at a bar or a restaurant or any other venue that wants to provide it to you. It is a matter of DCI having the right to decide what is in the best interest of the activity, the organization and its fans.

Seems to me that in the best interest of the activity, DCI shouldn't let that violent fellow purchase alcohol. Perhaps in the future they should keep a watchful eye on him since he has a history of violence and substance abuse.

The argument you made is very clear. I, myself, have heard the argument many times over that one person can ruin it for everyone. Fortunately we live in a country where the rights of the individual do not supersede the whole. Everyone is not punishable by law for the conduct of others. If a teacher molests a student all teachers are not henceforth banned from the presence of children. That teacher who committed the sex offense is charged and prosecuted. If someone is stabbed to death, knives are not then prohibited by law.

The choice of an idiot is still a choice. Whether that idiot chose to make his decisions under the influence was his right. When his actions effect the rights of another person he then forfeits those rights. The alumni in the other deck on the other side of the field watching his oldest son march his age-out season while having a beer with his fellow alumni and old friend is not allowed to do so because that bonehead can't control himself? Alcohol has the same effect every time. If you drink irresponsibly and go too far it can impair your judgment. Alcohol does not randomly target an individual in order to induce a crime.

Edited August 26, 2007 by MelloDisciple

[Whoa_Mellophone_2012]

DCI could do what pro-sports teams do and reserve a crappy section and market it as an alcohol free family zone. If you're that adamantly opposed to the sale and consumption of alcohol at DCI events, you will suck it up and take the crappier seats.

[skevinp]

Seems to me that in the best interest of the activity, DCI shouldn't let that violent fellow purchase alcohol. Perhaps in the future they should keep a watchful eye on him since he has a history of violence and substance abuse.

The argument you made is very clear. I, myself, have heard the argument many times over that one person can ruin it for everyone. Fortunately we live in a country where the rights of the individual do not supersede the whole. Everyone is not punishable by law for the conduct of others. If a teacher molests a student all teachers are not henceforth banned from the presence of children. That teacher who committed the sex offense is charged and prosecuted. If someone is stabbed to death, knives are not then prohibited by law.

The choice of an idiot is still a choice. Whether that idiot chose to make his decisions under the influence was his right. When his actions effect the rights of another person he then forfeits those rights. The alumni in the other deck on the other side of the field watching his oldest son march his age-out season while having a beer with his fellow alumni and old friend is not allowed to do so because that bonehead can't control himself? Alcohol has the same effect every time. If you drink irresponsibly and go too far it can impair your judgment. Alcohol does not randomly target an individual in order to induce a crime.

Your argument would make sense if we were talking about the government taking away the rights of society at large, but we aren't. We all have the right in general to drink beer, just as we all have a right to have a video camera, etc., but it is DCI's call whether to allow either of those things at their events. DCI has a tremendous responsibility on its hands and it has the right to decide what it wants to allow and prevent in order to accomplish the objectives it wishes to accomplish, which will be ultimately in the best interests of the fans in its estimation.

[AnaheimAlumni]

Question #1: Should DCI allow the sale of alcoholic beverages at any DCI competitions?

Question #2: Do you know or believe that this was a factor in some of the crowd’s boisterous behavior towards Cadets at the quarterfinals competition?

All (or most) professional sports events allow the sale of alcohol. I’m told that all NCAA sanctioned college sports do NOT allow such sales. If ours is a family-oriented activity, should we avoid the sale of alcoholic beverages?

I was on line for macho nachos at quarterfinals in the Rose Bowl, and I saw people buying wine because the beer at our stand was warm. I did not see any spirits being sold. The behavior of some audience members towards the Cadets that night was clearly unacceptable and shameful; it reflected poorly upon our activity, and I was embarassed. Did the continuous sale of alcoholic beverages since 2 PM that day contribute to their rude and boisterous behavior seven hours later at 9 PM? I personally did not see (I only heard) the people shouting rude comments before and during Cadets performance. Can anyone personally confirm or disavow the connection between their rude behavior and drinking? Thank you.

1 YES

2 NO

[ravedodger]

I had about three beers between Friday and Saturday nights. I think I and the person I was with were the drunkest people there--and we were sober. At $7 a drink, no one is getting drunk.

No, alcohol was a non-factor. Quote me.

[MikeD]

Question #1: Should DCI allow the sale of alcoholic beverages at any DCI competitions?

Question #2: Do you know or believe that this was a factor in some of the crowd’s boisterous behavior towards Cadets at the quarterfinals competition?

All (or most) professional sports events allow the sale of alcohol. I’m told that all NCAA sanctioned college sports do NOT allow such sales. If ours is a family-oriented activity, should we avoid the sale of alcoholic beverages?

I was on line for macho nachos at quarterfinals in the Rose Bowl, and I saw people buying wine because the beer at our stand was warm. I did not see any spirits being sold. The behavior of some audience members towards the Cadets that night was clearly unacceptable and shameful; it reflected poorly upon our activity, and I was embarassed. Did the continuous sale of alcoholic beverages since 2 PM that day contribute to their rude and boisterous behavior seven hours later at 9 PM? I personally did not see (I only heard) the people shouting rude comments before and during Cadets performance. Can anyone personally confirm or disavow the connection between their rude behavior and drinking? Thank you.

Good thread, Jim.

As I wasn't there I have no way of knowing about the particulars, but IMO booze should not be sold at DCI events for the NCAA comparison you made above.