When it's time to walk away-

[HockeyDad]

So you nay sayers basically don't like something because things are different and avant garde?

Nope. Not at all. Different does not necessarily equal better, or progress, or avant garde. Sometimes, different turns out to be a bad idea. I believe that's what the "nay sayers" are saying. And I think you know that.

[MikeD]

But that's the whole point - the net could have grown by so much more. Voice IS a factor in driving fans away, but do you really think it is responsible for bringing new fans in?

IMO the general direction is what is bringing in the crowds we see. I don't think any one thing can be looked at up or down, besides some few who decide to leave.

[kusankusho]

IMO the general direction is what is bringing in the crowds we see. I don't think any one thing can be looked at up or down, besides some few who decide to leave.

I think it's better marketing, exposure at BOA and WGI events - the ESPN thing. You can't credit mics for any increases. You can, however, thank them for some departures.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

So you nay sayers basically don't like something because things are different and avant garde?

I wonder how many of you really sat down and said "I might be naturally resisting to these new things just because they're new?"

What's avante garde about a mic and an amp? Do something truly avant garde with those tools and people might actually like it. There's nothing avant garde in lecturing an audience about pimply teen angst. And besides, Avant Garde folded in 86.

[no_itsnotadash]

I will leave when I find the activity no longer offers me any excitement or I do not agree with the decisions being made. Openning up instrumentation, increasing membership to create "super corps", and electronics will be too much for me.

Getting labeled as being "not a true fan" because I do not support certain aspects of this activity, is complete and utter ignorance. If no one cared about the direction of the activity, then there would be no changes and people questioning those changes.

I question decisions made because I care about the experience I am recieving right now. In a perfect world, this activity would be strictly about the kids and the instructors and organzation they are apart of. But I my opinion, this is just a fraction of what drum corps is today.

I found this on a Facebook group and thought it made some good points so I'll share:

"I have no doubt that my writings have the potential to stir up perhaps, some controversy, bad vibes, further discussion,r maybe even a threat or two, or even expulsion from this group. Be that as it may, I will at least put out "my" thoughts on much of this - and they are mine, no one else's. I've also noticed that many or most here are what I would call newbies, meaning with 10 - 15 years or less time involved.

First off, I "AM" a Cadet (once, always) - an alumnus status cannot be removed nor changed.

First, let me address one or two things I've read here :

1) Yamaha & YEA booths next to each other, coincidence?, perhaps, alphabetical, perhaps, but remember both are in bed together (financially) as well.Thnik the term "sponsorships"

2) Going to a Band show to recruit? Very old news. The Corps in question did that already way back in the 80's at a time when it was close to going under with membership in the low double digits.

I am no longer involved in the Competitive aspect of Drum Corps, more so DCI. This, after well over 40 years of active participation, volunteering, donating in the $1,000's, sponsoring kids' tours, and mostly working as a photographer. I have seen, heard and been involved in things that most of you are completely unaware of or have no conception of, truly.

Do not believe for a moment, that DCI is for the kids. or for that matter, the fans - as Drum Corps once was. At one time Drum Corps was the Premier marching activity, even if it was the only one. Before you, there was no WGI, or competitive marching band - just Drum Corps.

Today, it is all about being a business, or to be precise, a poorly run business at that.The executive director is nothing of the sort. He is merely a figurehead who must answer to 20 other guys( Corps Directors) - each one of them, pushing, pulling & tugging at him for their own individual needs. And that is why there is so much disorganization along with constant rules changes et al. And if one takes a good hard look at the activity over many years, one will in fact see, it is continually shrinking.

Most will refuse to believe that, but it's a statement I do not take lightly. There's good reason why DCA is continually growing and the Alumni activity is growing by leaps & bounds. DCA is without doubt, more family oriented, & Alumni certainly more of that fraternal feel.

Creating hype for an organization is one thing, but when pulling the proverbial rabbit out of a hat,( intended to bring in the masses it lacks in) & it is then actually believed, well that is truly a sad thing. Case in point. "Drum Corps is no longer the 1/2 time, but is now the game". Please, someone take the time to rationally explain to me, one what planet? And where did that come from? A simple answer, in what amounts to nothing more than a "snippet" on ESPN. HOORAY, Drum Corps has finally made it to a Major TV channel instead of the past 25 years on PBS. Wrong. The mass audience is NOT interested in Drum Corps. Drum Corps is art that moves? Drum Corps is Broadway on a football field? Who came up with this? The closest that comes is the incredibly talented Al Chez playing the Star Spangled Banner on the 50. OK, so the Cadets played on Letterman. Granted. it was GREAT for the kids, but, what did that exposure do to further the activity? Nothing.

History shows that Drum Corps, on the whole has been chasing it's own tail since DCI's inception. Looking here & there for it's own sense of legitimacy. Not to say that there's anything illegitimate about it. Yes, Corps is quite real, what you do is quite real. But the fact is, it simply shall not reach a mass audience appeal. If it hasn't done so by now, it WILL NOT.

Do your homework and look way back at your roots in this. Drum Corps, when initailly formed, was intended as an activity to entertain and amuse itself. And as difficult as it may be to believe, it is still that & nothing more. That is a good part of the problem & it's slow descent. It takes itself way too seriously. Thus, it is all about the business. How many Drum Corps were around in the mid 70's to mid 80's ? Hundreds?

As devils advocate, Hopkins is not the only blame, way too many are involved in that. Don't get me wrong, I ADORE my Cadets, but in my minds eye, there is something inherently wrong in GH. That's but a small part of why I walked. And don't believe for a second that it doesn't hurt each & every day. I loved those kids and many of you out there as well that were not Cadets ! I've watched them grown up, I photographed more Drum Corps wedding than I can count on two hands, I've seen their children come into the world.

But, the changes are too much to bare, the greed of some sponsors telling DCI how to run it's business and them doing so in the name a a buck, is simply to foul for my tastes.

Go back and read some interviews with this so called executive director & see how it is said that the activity is in the best shape it ever been in. Really now?

Financially, it's a mess. Most Corps are broke, save a few of the powerhouses - or close to it. Others always operating on a deficit, begging for money. Why? This is a business in it's best shape ever?

Lets look at fandom now. Being newbies (no offense intended) do you actually know what a hard core fan actually is? Impossible. Most are long gone & ya never knew of them to begin with. Literally 1000's have fled the stands - year after year after year. They now get their rush at DCA and at the Alumni circuit. I could drop 100 names here & now & you'd simply shake your head - "who's that? No, I do not detract from those out there today, show designers, and the Caption heads - utter brilliance, these men & women. Scott Johnson, Casella, Aungst, & dozens more. But they are not the problem in this.

So back to the fans. Someone posted that the next thing is recruiting @ a t band show. Very old news already. Garfield did that as they were close to going under & a few years later they took 3 in a row.

But today the stands are more or less being filled with those actually from that activity. And in that, there is an inherent danger. Although both activities are a transient one at best, more so with band. Drum Corps had it way of people sticking around forever. In marching band, a kid plays 2,3, 4 years, graduates, goes to college and goes on to life. Nothing wrong in that at all. As a matter of fact, there's nothing wrong in a band kid marching Drum Corps either. BUT, when the activity, as a whole is now drawing itself ever closer to that particular activity, it is now playing harder to a transient audience. Go to any band competition and watch the stands. When a unit is done, everyone LEAVES. Understandable, to a degree, but not for Drum Corps.

It's a mindset, and most band kids and parents will not be staying around year after year going to Drum Corps shows & paying big ticket prices.

At one time, Drum Corps led the field in what was new, and innovation, and band picked up on it in a mimic. Today, it's the other way around. Your own posted photo shows it (Cavaliers with flutes & saxaphones).

My personal prediction? Within ten years of it's move to Indy, BOA will have bought out DCI and it's game over. I don't like GH either, but it's not just him, remember.

I invite your responses, but please, just be adult about it. That IS part of what you learned in your Corps experiences. And in advance, I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my personal opinions."

Edited September 2, 2007 by no_itsnotadash

[JimF-LowBari]

I wonder how many of you really sat down and said "I might be naturally resisting to these new things just because they're new?"

Since I started new things that cropped up were.... marching bells, 2 valves, asymetric drill, pit usage, dance from the guard, 3 valves, the "show" concept instead of just playing bunch of songs, amps, voice.... and a raft of stuff I can't remember because I just drove 260 miles from Rochester to home and hit a boatload of PA construction delays.

Only changes that keep me from enjoying the DCI shows are amps and voice. And yes, I watched 2005/2006 Cadets and Crossmen to make sure.

Ever go to a show and have someone talk behind you and drown out the sound of the horns and drums you came to hear? To me, that's the effect of amp and voice. Only difference is the sounds drowning out the corps is coming from the front instead of behind....

[MikeD]

I think it's better marketing, exposure at BOA and WGI events - the ESPN thing. You can't credit mics for any increases. You can, however, thank them for some departures.

Better marketing and moving the activity along in the direction it has been going for decades. I really don't care about the few who leave due to one little things like mics...some left due to Bb horns...that is their problem, not DCI's.