Music stands in Mini Corps

[captcastile]

You just hit the perennial nail on the head........and I may ruffle some of your feathers here, but this is MY opinion. Agree or disagree if you want.....that's up to you, but this thread is really starting to ruffle MY feathers!!!

Personally, I think that if you memorize the music, it IS harder than having the music right there in front of you. It's like buying a jigsaw puzzle with all the little pieces numbered, and an instruction booklet to go along with it, telling you exactly where all the little pieces go. Where is the challenge to that??? Challenge = Difficulty

When you memorize the music, it is more difficult to remember where all the nuances happen, the articulations of each note, where all the dynamics go, and so on. When you have the music on stands right there in front of you, it is like having that instruction booklet right there with you....it's a crutch!!! There...I said it.....a CRUTCH! It's like saying "we are not completely prepared....we know most of the music, but not sure of some things, so we are going to have our music on our stands here for reference, and do the best we can possibly do under the circumstances".

I have members in the Golden Eagles who can't read a single note of music, but #### can they play! And yes....we do have those 5 hour rehearsals just so I can teach them the notes and rhythms. Once they get the notes and rhythms down, THEN we can start working on the performance aspect of our show. And yes.....it DOES take us about 5 months to get all the notes and rhythms down! (maybe that is why we started rehearsals a month ago to learn 3 completly NEW songs)....Stuff like this is exactly what makes Drum Corps so difficult, and what differentiates Drum Corps from any other orchestra, stage band or concert band.

Those who have the music memorized for competition are more prepared than those who use music stands, and should be rewarded for it. Heck...it IS a competition after all, isn't it??

Again....agree or disagree, I really don't care......BUT....I will continue to make sure the Golden Eagles are prepared to compete (by NOT having music stands) and bring you the most exciting show DCA and MCA will see in 2008!!! You can count on that! We may or may not win (and yes...we ARE in it to win it), but we will also not be disappointed if the crowd gives us 4 to 5 standing O's during our performance, KNOWING we gave the crowd what they came to see!!!

Any by the way, you can all catch the Golden Eagles this Saturday, Nov 3rd in Cinnaminson, NJ to give our final performance of the 2007 season at the Music Express "Expressions" show. Hope to see you all there! (shameless plug)

Your all over it Frank, I totally agree! Just to add one more unsolicited opinion, for the people that say Mini Corps is supposed to be fun, most of the fun is taking the time to learn a number, listen to it come together week to week until it clicks. That to me is the fun aspect of Mini Corps. The performance and crowd response is the reward for all the work you put into your program. One little side note: Mass Brass sops don't even use music stands in rehearsal, we have Strutta hold the music for us!

[SaraNYC]

Professional orchestras and very bad wedding bands

Now THAT is funny!!! LOL!

[SaraNYC]

Sara, you may have memory issues due to chemo, but that's not the only source. Like it or not, as we all get older we suffer in varying degrees from CRS.

I used to memorize based on harmonic structure and intervals. Now I sometimes have trouble remembering what KEY I'm READING in!

Well, and then I have some "dead brain cell" issues of my own making .

If I ever play in a mini-corps at DCA competition, I will be doing it without music simply because I know I will perform better having it memorized. But I'm not going to get my panties in a wad if I see someone up there with the occasional music stand.

[Jimbalaya]

Hiya Gary.........I'm baaaaaack........so, the criteria and credit to be derived therein is open to interpretation by the adjudicators. I believe there is no education for them in the minicorps event. Therefore, and I have been guilty of this also, the judge(s) can interpret the sheets based on their own experience. The sheets do not specifically identify music stands or crediting of movement. Memorization of a 9 1/2 minute 'book' and constant movement gets no more credit because it's not identified as such and the judges have no guidelines to identify the inherent demand of memorization and the physical demand of movement.

What we see happening is the evolution of the minicorps event into a movement and static display with or without stands. It's up to each individual unit to determine how they want to approach their show, but the type of show if it's to remain in the competitive arena need redefining to accomodate both trends.

J

............and kind of embarrassing,.......................IMO, in drum corps credit is given, or at least should be given for knowing your music,............

[Shenandoah Vibrato]

(Judge in the middle of the competition throws his yellow hanky and says to the crowd in his amplified voice <**> )

"We have two penalties.!

Red team - Illegal use of stands!

Blue team - Unsportsman like conduct, player did not know the music!

Off-setting penalties repeat music book!"

(Judge picks up his flag and returns to his seat in the stands) :P

I would like to see the DCA mini-corps night remain in its present state of lose rules with a good time being had by crowds and participants alike. But I also think that MCA can be the competition police (without sarcasm) and set what ever rules they agree upon for their competitions.

P.S. Note the music stands in my avatar. (Thanks NanciD for the picture from Rachacha ).

[Jimbalaya]

So shameless plug Frankie.....what was the name of the indoor show that the Golden Eagles Mini Corps will perform at?

Could it be: "Expressions 2007" the inaugural indoor event co-sponsored by The Music Express Drum & Bugle Corps, who not only use music stands, but also sit down to perform? OK.....we sit 'cause were older than poop and play like a big jazz band. It's one heck of a line up. Our co-sponsor is the Cinnaminson (NJ) High School Music Parents.

Anyone interested in coming please check this link

http://themusicexpress.org/show/show.html

Come one.....come all........you won't be disappointed........

J

You just hit the perennial nail on the head........and I may ruffle some of your feathers here, but this is MY opinion. Agree or disagree if you want.....that's up to you, but this thread is really starting to ruffle MY feathers!!!

Personally, I think that if you memorize the music, it IS harder than having the music right there in front of you. It's like buying a jigsaw puzzle with all the little pieces numbered, and an instruction booklet to go along with it, telling you exactly where all the little pieces go. Where is the challenge to that??? Challenge = Difficulty

When you memorize the music, it is more difficult to remember where all the nuances happen, the articulations of each note, where all the dynamics go, and so on. When you have the music on stands right there in front of you, it is like having that instruction booklet right there with you....it's a crutch!!! There...I said it.....a CRUTCH! It's like saying "we are not completely prepared....we know most of the music, but not sure of some things, so we are going to have our music on our stands here for reference, and do the best we can possibly do under the circumstances".

I have members in the Golden Eagles who can't read a single note of music, but #### can they play! And yes....we do have those 5 hour rehearsals just so I can teach them the notes and rhythms. Once they get the notes and rhythms down, THEN we can start working on the performance aspect of our show. And yes.....it DOES take us about 5 months to get all the notes and rhythms down! (maybe that is why we started rehearsals a month ago to learn 3 completly NEW songs)....Stuff like this is exactly what makes Drum Corps so difficult, and what differentiates Drum Corps from any other orchestra, stage band or concert band.

Those who have the music memorized for competition are more prepared than those who use music stands, and should be rewarded for it. Heck...it IS a competition after all, isn't it??

Again....agree or disagree, I really don't care......BUT....I will continue to make sure the Golden Eagles are prepared to compete (by NOT having music stands) and bring you the most exciting show DCA and MCA will see in 2008!!! You can count on that! We may or may not win (and yes...we ARE in it to win it), but we will also not be disappointed if the crowd gives us 4 to 5 standing O's during our performance, KNOWING we gave the crowd what they came to see!!!

Any by the way, you can all catch the Golden Eagles this Saturday, Nov 3rd in Cinnaminson, NJ to give our final performance of the 2007 season at the Music Express "Expressions" show. Hope to see you all there! (shameless plug)

[Jimbalaya]

Hey DonnieJoe.........you sure can stir it up........LOLOLOL. Glad you didn't on Saturday night.

Tell Little Joe I took care of business........

Joebalogna (according to Gary)

[Donny Drum Corps]

Holy Cow...3 pages in an hour! My last post was on page 6.

Tom, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I just think you have proposed something that is a little unreasonable... thus the responses have been what they are. I wouldn't have expected anything different knowing these characters as I do. There is a lot of pride in some of these groups and the competition is VERY healthy between these mini corps. Especially the corps that are representatives of the fledgling MCA.

I think that your group is a welcome entry into something that has existed as it is for some years now. And it is not that change isn't good, I just don't think that what you are asking for can happen in this arena. Again, it doesn't sound like anyone is against your mini corps using stands...but there absolutely cannot be any extra credit given FOR using stands.

You did seem to be a little sensitive earlier about the subject, and if you took it hard, just consider what it was you were asking for. I think that your group has a great approach to keeping the activity in the public eye in various venues. I almost wish that it was possible around here. I have tried it with a couple of different types of groups, and it just didnt seem to gel. So congratulations on what you are doing there at CB!

The sheets need some sprucing up of course. There needs to be more definition on terms of competition. I have already told Rod and Doug from GR that I would even volunteer to be on a task force of sorts to embellish these existing sheets or even come up with new sheets entirely, if that is what is necessary.

Keep doing what you are doing. Tom. You have a lot of players to choose from and different types of gigs that stray from the typical drum corps gigs. I can't see anything wrong with that. DCA mini corps is only a part of what you guys do, so keep it that way. If you want to use stands...have at it. If everyone doesnt agree with you, oh well...you tried.

Just don't expect everyone to go along with you on everything you propose concerning this activity that many people pride themselves as being pretty good at. That is MINI CORPS. It gives my only chance to play anymore (by my own choice.) I am too busy on the internet to practice...LMAO.

See I busted my own balls on that one.

Donny

[MikeD]

I think that your group is a welcome entry into something that has existed as it is for some years now. And it is not that change isn't good, I just don't think that what you are asking for can happen in this arena. Again, it doesn't sound like anyone is against your mini corps using stands...but there absolutely cannot be any extra credit given FOR using stands.

Donny,

I don't think Tom meant that...he was saying that in jest as a response to a person who said that they should be penalized for using them. I believe he clarified that a few pages back. That one statement has taken on a life of it's own in this thread, that's for sure!

[brassomaniac]

Holy Cow...3 pages in an hour! My last post was on page 6.

Tom, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I just think you have proposed something that is a little unreasonable... thus the responses have been what they are. I wouldn't have expected anything different knowing these characters as I do. There is a lot of pride in some of these groups and the competition is VERY healthy between these mini corps. Especially the corps that are representatives of the fledgling MCA.

I think that your group is a welcome entry into something that has existed as it is for some years now. And it is not that change isn't good, I just don't think that what you are asking for can happen in this arena. Again, it doesn't sound like anyone is against your mini corps using stands...but there absolutely cannot be any extra credit given FOR using stands.

You did seem to be a little sensitive earlier about the subject, and if you took it hard, just consider what it was you were asking for. I think that your group has a great approach to keeping the activity in the public eye in various venues. I almost wish that it was possible around here. I have tried it with a couple of different types of groups, and it just didnt seem to gel. So congratulations on what you are doing there at CB!

The sheets need some sprucing up of course. There needs to be more definition on terms of competition. I have already told Rod and Doug from GR that I would even volunteer to be on a task force of sorts to embellish these existing sheets or even come up with new sheets entirely, if that is what is necessary.

Keep doing what you are doing. Tom. You have a lot of players to choose from and different types of gigs that stray from the typical drum corps gigs. I can't see anything wrong with that. DCA mini corps is only a part of what you guys do, so keep it that way. If you want to use stands...have at it. If everyone doesnt agree with you, oh well...you tried.

Just don't expect everyone to go along with you on everything you propose concerning this activity that many people pride themselves as being pretty good at. That is MINI CORPS. It gives my only chance to play anymore (by my own choice.) I am too busy on the internet to practice...LMAO.

See I busted my own balls on that one.

Donny

Thanks for the kind post.

I think that I was misunderstood about "proposing" credit for reading. And I'll take the blame for not being clear. It was just an illustration to make a point about the VALUE of reading. That's all. Not seriously proposed as a rule change. And the point was we CAN read the show because the rules allow it.

I will take full responsibility for creating any misunderstandings here. As you probably know, I am pretty enthusiastic about my little project, and I'm sure that it can come off as pushy (and worse).

PLEASE let me make a couple of things clear (most of which I've posted on other threads before).

I AM NOT proposing any change in the way things are right now. No rule changes; not anything. I would not presume, as a late arrival on the scene, to be directing ANYTHING.

It would be my position to simply work within the rules laid out by those who deserve to set them (not me). If restrictions were put in place, or the sheets reworked to encourage drill, etc. , I would just have to consider whether that was right for us or not.

I have a great respect for what has been done to lay the groudwork for a very successful mini-corps scene. And I'm just happy to be involved in it.

I don't think that there's anything better about what we have.. most of you can trump our resources and talent many times over. We just have a DIFFERENT approach.

And, I acknowledge that I was not sensitive to the history and background lurking behind this issue. Which is why I apologized for my treatment of it (a couple of pages ago?)

I just wish the apology would be accepted. I would not be repeating it if I didn't care what you all think. I value your knowledge. experience and opinions very much.

Thanks to all those who were supportive.

Edited October 30, 2007 by brassomaniac