NORTHEAST INDEPENDENT!

[Musical_Spinner]

I would love to start now, but I am in finals mode until 330 PM tomorrow.

I'll post the link in my signature when I start it.......look for it soon.

[southerncolorguard]

I guess when it comes down to it, it's all your personal opinion. I think NEi has great movement and great hands. If you don't, that doesn't mean you're correct, or incorrect, it means that's your opinion. You can break down the movement to a cute little definition from your modern dance class text book, or you can appreciate the fact that there are colorguards being gutsy enough to try something better than the so called "definition" of movement by WGI. I think people like Mia Micheals and others would have a little bit more to say about a group that tries to be out of the box instead of someone constantly conforming to the norms in place since the beginning of movement in WGI. God bless NEi's movement instructor and her stylistic approach to a show about war. I would much rather see what they did do then see a ballet company perform to the same soundtrack.

Having lived in Florida and having the opportunity to go to many FFCC shows since 2000, I have seen the Knights and how they move. It is very consistent from style and execution every year. At least when watching NEi, from someone that is clearly not as intelligent when it comes to dance with no hope what so ever as being as smart as you will be with big medical terms and text book definitions, enjoys watching a stylistic morph from year to year, even if it is a "stiff" upper body during a show about things being blown up around you.

But, that's just my opinion.

Edited December 11, 2007 by southerncolorguard

[TrishDish1002]

Listen, if someone wants to write a weekly column on movement in color guard, we'd welcome that. However NOT if it is going to be at the expense of other groups.

This is the last warning for the post before it gets closed. A little healthy banter is fine, but when we start saying "this group can't move" or "this group only changes their unitard every year" - well that's just ignorant.

All of these groups bring something different to the WGI table and we applaud that.

keep it friendly or don't say anything.

Thanks!

[CoastGuard]

I hate to keep this discussion alive, but are you a teacher in this activity? I have to be honest, I have never really seen anyone totally attack a guard like you have. I watched Mia Michaels react to NEI at Spinfest and listened to her tell them not to change a thing. They were performing sections from LAST year's production. I REALLY wish I knew your credentials.

1) I have ALWAYS had a problem with NEIs movement, ALWAYS. So have other people I've known, this is nothing new in my circle of dancers and guard friends, don't just assume it was this year. 2004 and 2003 were a little better but since then and since they've placed higher it's been horrendous movement in my eyes.

2) We are talking about the movement, not the show design, it is such a 'scapegoat to say "oh I bet you can't do this and that" but I know for one thing, I can dance better......

The movement philosophy of WGI as I understand it is: Movement is not about ballet or whatever other style they utilize, it is about the uniformity of the way the kids move.

All of them looked uniform stiff (which if you enjoyed it, okay, that's fine) but stiffness isn't movement so the score was correct.

And the technique of dance they did use was atrocious with that stiffness....and you can tell:

Their leaps or any other form of dancing they did in any of their shows are not kinesiologically correct, you can tell by the way the leaps are initiated, the flexion in the acetabulum, the plies in the landing and the extension from the hierarchy of the leg, the jamming of the hip sockets and so on. I could go on forever about how if they are going to use those elements then they need to release the stiffness in the upper body to release the breath to do it. Until then the rigid upper bodies contribute to the poor technique they chose to utilize.

[Musical_Spinner]

I hate to keep this discussion alive, but are you a teacher in this activity? I have to be honest, I have never really seen anyone totally attack a guard like you have. I watched Mia Michaels react to NEI at Spinfest and listened to her tell them not to change a thing. They were performing sections from LAST year's production. I REALLY wish I knew your credentials.

Wish all you want. I have never listed my credentials or shared my learnings of movement and movement analysis here for this reason in that my views are very critical in movement and people would think I was being too harsh. When I give my impressions of movement in the activity in an honest way, I am looked down upon as having a harsh or rude opinion, it's not picking apart a guard just for the fun of it, movement is very very complex and deserves a critical look. I didn't say NEI was the worst in the world but based on my learnings in a higher institution of education, I supported my opinion and the judges placement.

But just to give you a hint of my knowledge:

I got my start in dance in the guard world as a performer and have pursued my college degree in dance because of it (my dance part of my degree is done as well). It doesn't matter which guard I marched either, what matters is the knowledge I was given. My instructor in movement for guard was a pro-ballet dancer first then 3 time DCI world champion. My dance teachers at school have all performed onstage in NYC in pro-companies. I have had master classes with artistic directors of companies that find me talented, and have a knack for Laban Movement Analysis and Bartenieff Fundamentals.

I am not a guard teacher, I am a dance teacher that got his start in the guard world. If I taught a guard I would still be teaching movement and dance to that guard. I chose to teach people who want

to dance and if a guard wants to learn more about dance in all aspects then I might consider going back to the guard world, but it doesn't look like it anytime soon. I am still young enough to have

a pro-dance career anyways, so it will be a while.

Mia: She is simply a choreographer in my eyes, she might have a way of explaining movement to get a new dynamic out of the body, but I bet she wasn't critiquing their proper use of the body in the choreography, but more of the choreography itself. She uses the body in a lot of good ways in her own choreography but also sacrifices safety for effect......and that is the problem I have with a lot of guards, sacrificing Technique for Effect.......and that is dangerous........

[PrfctTimeOfDay]

I hate to keep this discussion alive, but are you a teacher in this activity? I have to be honest, I have never really seen anyone totally attack a guard like you have. I watched Mia Michaels react to NEI at Spinfest and listened to her tell them not to change a thing. They were performing sections from LAST year's production. I REALLY wish I knew your credentials.

Why does it matter? It's an opinion. . .this place is full of them. All that really matters is what NEI's show meant to you. I also don't think anyone is attacking a group here. Those of us familiar with dance, see a weakness that can be improved upon. . .that's it. It's not like we're saying that their accomplishments are not deserved. NEI is a fantastic group, and I've really liked everything they've put on the floor. But, there is still an issue with movement. You may think it's nit-picking, but that's what happens when one has to judge a caption. I think most of us are just trying to point out how and where they can improve. Hopefully that makes sense and we can move on. . .

[zackiedude]

Can we start an equipment version of this thread telling all the west coast guards who don't catch tip that their technique is disgusting? Please?

[southerncolorguard]

Excellent point Zack...

IT'S ALL MUSICAL SPINNER'S PERSONAL OPINION.

It's clear that they have nothing good to say about NEi from a movement standpoint. Even if he/she did give their credentials, it would still just be an opinion not a fact.

Here are the facts, NEi is an extremely sucessful top 5 world guard. NEi puts out entertaining shows to the majority of the winterguard world, ask any person who actually spins in the activity.

Lets return this thread to it's ORIGINAL intent, complimenting the guard on their accomplishments instead of personally attacking them based on a closed minded opinion. You've gone from saying you just dont like the movement, to it being stiff, to poor technique, then to good choreography but sacraficing safety for effect, your opinion seems to shift with the winds.

[PrfctTimeOfDay]

Excellent point Zack...

IT'S ALL MUSICAL SPINNER'S PERSONAL OPINION.

It's clear that they have nothing good to say about NEi from a movement standpoint. Even if he/she did give their credentials, it would still just be an opinion not a fact.

Here are the facts, NEi is an extremely sucessful top 5 world guard. NEi puts out entertaining shows to the majority of the winterguard world, ask any person who actually spins in the activity.

Lets return this thread to it's ORIGINAL intent, complimenting the guard on their accomplishments instead of personally attacking them based on a closed minded opinion. You've gone from saying you just dont like the movement, to it being stiff, to poor technique, then to good choreography but sacraficing safety for effect, your opinion seems to shift with the winds.

Fact: They finished 11th in Movement Vocab

Again, they are just opinions, but they don't have to be the same as yours, or even complimentary. Also, no one on either side of this discussion is going to change their position, so I don't know why we continue to have it. Most persons with a background in Dance see it one way, those who don't, see it another way. I personally have no stake in it either way. . That said, I would like for them to improve their movement so they can better their skill set and their program.

Whether their shows are entertaining is also opinion. . .I personally like them, some may not.

[zackiedude]

Fact: They finished 11th in Movement Vocab

Fact: They finished 4th in Movement Excellence. So this discussion of how they did what they did wrong seems... well, wrong.