CVQuesty Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 It’s helpful to return to first principles. As an optional, recreational activity, the first principle of drum corps is to be fun for those in it -- not to be educational, competitive, or even entertaining to the audience. All those things follow because they support the first principle. (Darwin even applies here!)You can get “education” on many levels in drum corps, but, if education is your primary goal, there are other activities and institutions that do it better. But drum corps is more fun. Apparently Mr. Fennell disagrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Success should NEVER be measured by the number or rating that a judge puts on a sheet, or by if so-and-so makes this Honor Band and that Honor Band. Then you can never in good conscience recommend one of your students to go to honor band, summer band camp, drum corps, solo and ensemble festival, I&E, or a chess tournament. The problem with that philosophy is that the colleges you're trying to prepare them for spend all their time looking for precisely their placement in competitive auditions. They are looking for all the ensembles they were in, and the level of achievement/placement in each organization. If they don't get into those ensembles and place high (or increasingly higher, showing improvement and the ability to progress) they'll never get the scholarships; the assistance from the good music schools. That's not what music education should be about. Believe me, I am just as competitive as the next guy is, but you should NEVER advertise "competition" to your kids- I HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE that word. It makes a lot of kids uneasy, and it doesn't promote good sportsmanship. When the word "competition" is used, kids start to believe that if they aren't happy with the number or the place they get, they are failures. When a kid is so proud of all that he or she has done while being in a marching band or drum corps, and judges decide that that band is the 13th best when 12 bands make Finals, or when the kid's band gets last place, how do you think that kid feels? I think you're doing a disservice here. from the time they leave your band hall and move on to college, absolutely EVERYTHING they do in life is competition, achievement, reward, repeat. They compete for scholarships, they compete for the highest placement in their respective college ensembles via competitive auditions. When they leave school and go out into the world for that band director's job, they compete with others in an evaluation process for their job so they can put food on the table. If a performance major, it's even worse... They compete on the open market for the gigs in town (or move to where they have a wider field of competition to be able to put food on the table) Orchestras, dance bands, directorships, consultancies, you name it. ALL competitive. So, what again are you preparing your kids for? To feel good or to succeed? The fact is that life will kick you quite a bit. If you learn how to compete and win (and compete and fail) with a caring, nurturing music director, you learn a VERY important tenet of life. That it is not always fair, that you don't always win, and DESPITE that, you are someone and you are great ANYHOW. THAT is your job as director. Not only as director but almost a life-coach when placed in that position. If you kid-glove your kids and don't teach them both the victory AND the defeat, what it really means, and how to cope in both cases, you have failed as a teacher. I will say this - I think competition is fine in the drum corps arena - we've been used to it for so long, and it has to happen (from auditions, to getting a spot vs. being an alternate, to competitions themselves). you mean like for honor band or even placement for chairs within your own band? Competition is a difficult thing to talk about with kids, but I do believe that it can be done. Every effort should be made to ensure that you and your kids will be competitive. However, as a music teacher, if the ultimate goal for you is for your kids to do well competitively, or if you and/or your kids think they are unsuccessful because they don't do well competitively, something has gone wrong. Now we agree. (sorry... I tend to progress through a post and read it fully during my reply) Your job is not to help them avoid competition, but to embrace it, learn it, and understand it's place in LIFE, that it doesn't define WHO they are, but refines them. It hones rough edges and makes them better. EVEN when they lose. EVEN when they win. Competition is a healthy thing, and trying to shield our children from it ill prepares them for the life they have ahead of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 That is 100% true, but it reflects badly on the person, not the competitiion itself. I tell our band this every season before champs.... There are three things that determine where we place... 1) Our performance 2) The rest of the performances 3) What the judges think.... ...and that we control only number 1). We always strive to go out and compete against ourselves first and foremost...to raise the bar on our performance level each week. After that, the rest takes care of itself. The members know they are competing, and they know it's up to them to perform their show to the utmost. I have no issues with competition, as long as it is handled in an appropriate manner by the band staff. God, Mike... you freaking rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Competition is a great motivator, and it can be used as a motivator, but it can also take a kid and completely shatter all of the efforts that he or she put into something. I marched in a drum and bugle corps that, in one particular year, was in the Top 12 for the ENTIRE season until Semi-Finals. Then, 8 people in Green shirts decided to take away our last performance. Let me tell ya - THAT was a tough pill to swallow. I felt like a failure - and I'm still bitter about it. I think your last comment here tells me where your concepts of competition and your feelings about competitive music come from. Dude, don't let the judging process whack you out. Yes, that sucks. But people are not defined by their moment at the top of the mountain, but by how they conduct themselves when at the lowest point in the valley. It's where character comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 God, Mike... you freaking rock. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marimbadude Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Apparently Mr. Fennell disagrees. Does anyone have a sense of what Fennell thought of corps as a vehicle to teach pure musicianship? He does not really speak to it focusing more on the discipline aspects of corps. In that regard (musicianship), I definitely agree with the OP and would love to know Fennell's opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Does anyone have a sense of what Fennell thought of corps as a vehicle to teach pure musicianship? He does not really speak to it focusing more on the discipline aspects of corps. In that regard (musicianship), I definitely agree with the OP and would love to know Fennell's opinions. I'm guessing you read the interviews that were linked by me earlier. Having spent three entire days with him in Buffalo, running him around and sitting with him at rehearsals and Quarterfinals, and a number of days at his condo over the years, and having talked with him about drum corps often, he had a lot of respect for what he was observing in drum corps. He even adopted the method SCV used to describe volume, saying it was more accurate than the old Latin terms we used that were pretty vague. He claimed that good musicianship could be taught in any idiom. Having been a marching band director, and knowing he imparted good musical values to his students, he believed the marching idioms were more than capable of providing a solid music education during the time the students spent with the ensembles. He also believed that marching ensembles brought many students into a life of music who wouldn't have discovered the joy of performance otherwise. Dr. Fennell made it clear in the one interview what he thought of educators who showed nothing but disdain for marching bands and drum corps. And the reason was because he believed in those activities as viable forms of musical expression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertrombone Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 As much as you may not believe it, there are studies out there that do indicate that a competitive environment is not the ideal one for learning. If your goal is only education, I believe it is better to have the smallest amount of competition involved as possible. While some may thrive and even desire this element, overall it is not the best for real education, IMO.It's just one reason why I would like drum corps to not sell itself as nothing more than a venue for music education. It is never going to do that as well as other programs can and has so much more to offer without intentionally trying to limit itself. Yeah, and the Fortune 500 should hire everybody because their purpose in life is to provide jobs and benefits for the people. And dodge ball causes junior to feel inadequate. Hmph. Not attacking you, Tek, you just happened to be the first one I saw saying this! Competition is a good thing, whether it's in football, band/drum corps (two separate activities largely drawing from the same people), badmitton, or whatever. Competition breeds excellence and instills a strong work ethic that all of us know to be applicable in the broader world. That's why Harvard Law doesn't accept everybody that applies! And if that means that band is judged and bands are compared based on placements, then so be it. The members of drum corps gain so much from 'competing' at a high level and putting their every effort into the experience. It is the kid who sits at home and plays X-box all day who is overweight, out of shape, has asthma and diabetes, no social skills, and a terrible inability to take defeat or loss. Band-O's/DCI members walk around like the alpha male lion. I'll take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eqlou Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I always assumed the reason to join drum corps was to play loud and get drunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluublood Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I always assumed the reason to join drum corps was to play loud and get drunk What up Lou? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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