flashofthunder Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I don't think the purpose of education is to teach you how to compete. It is to provide you the tools so you will be able to compete. I think that a successful music ed program should do both of those things. At the moment I'm working very hard to refine my level of playing to the point where I can be offered a scholarship based on playing ability. If I can get a talent based scholarship, that would help a great deal. However, to do so I know that I need to be such a standout that it's almost ridiculous. The competition for scholarships is driving me to better myself as a musician. I know that when I pursue a career in music, there are two things that will get me a job: my level of proficiency and who I know. I know that I won't be given anything, and that for every hour I spend practicing, someone else is practicing for two. A teacher I had once(my caption head, in fact), said one day that in order to make an impression in the music world, you have to be absolutely ridiculous. That has stuck with me, and the more I see, the more I have found it to be true. I'm not interested in being good for a person my age; what will that get me? I am working to be someone who's considered outstanding in general. I think that competition is vital to drive someone to be better so that they may attain their goals, and I think that it is an important thing to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I don't think the purpose of education is to teach you how to compete. It is to provide you the tools so you will be able to compete. But what I'm saying is, you can't learn how to compete until you compete. You learn by doing, and the notion that somehow students competing in a situation, whatever it is, will be detrimental to their education doesn't make sense. Competing is a major part of life, so we're not doing students any favors by shielding them from competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 ... according to several Music Ed profs I had back in the day.I would guess the same mindset is still prevalent on many college campuses, and MusEd majors who have had valuable educational experiences in either marching band or drum corps know differently because they have lived it. Anyone have horror stories from your college days when a Music Education Professor would rail on about the horrors of competition? One thing that always seemed ironic to me- the highest level of musicianship is dependent on competition. By that I mean when you go to hear a professional symphony play, how did their musicians get their jobs? They competed before an audition committee. Same for many other professional music jobs. While their job is not a competition, how they got the job certainly was. Even in non-competitive school music programs, somebody has to audtion for wind ensemble, or show choir, or the lead in the school musical, or in many cases who gets the solo.... When winning becomes the main goal, then I agree there is a problem, but that is more on the directors priorities than on the benefits of competition itself (when priorities are in order). Thoughts or interesting stories/exchanges you guys have had on this topic? Where did you go to college? At North Texas, competition was not only acknowledged, it happend on an almost DAILY basis. It was simply understood that some of us in the program would make it, and some of us would not. It was understood that outside of college, competition in music is a plain an simple fact, and that if you weren't willing to be near the top, you weren't going to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keymodf Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 one of my roommates is nearly completely against the idea of drum corps. All of his opinions about it are completely valid as well, but at least he values the competitive nature and thinks some things about it are interesting and entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Without competition, music just doesn't feel complete. Copetition is how you become better and push yourself to a new level. Wow... so you don't do music for music's sake? You REQUIRE an extrinsic motivation like competition for you to enjoy the music making process? Extrinsic motivations are fine, but ultimately you're going to have to have some intrinsic motivation to do music, otherwise you're not going to be as successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBoy_ Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Yes, that's the funny thing. The 'real world' in music is EXTREMELY competitive. right on the money . also the art of fair play and good sportsmanship is a trait more people should should practice. CHEZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Maximize your own potential, help others to do the same. Support organizations that you think worthy. Educate yourself and others as much as you can. Never accept mediocrity even though you have mediocre moments. Have fun. Be a good person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Even more so; I find it highly hypocritical to hear anyone in the ivory towers of academia putting down competition since they hold COMPETITIVE auditions for scholarships, chair placements, etc. ALL THE TIME. I suspect that their displeasure of competition is purely self-serving since most of them are in tenured positions and for the most part, they coast (compared to others in the real world). They would hate to have to compete again in the true world of ideas in order to keep their jobs; therefore they are down on competition. Besides, it is not just irony that the most successful in this culture just so happened to have been involved in highly competitive arenas in their youth. You give everyone trophies; there is no need to excel. Therefore, excellence disappears. That is what is happening in today's PC world...get rid of competition; then everyone is at the same level of mediocrity. In other words, compliant worker bees in the Leninist mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 ... according to several Music Ed profs I had back in the day.I would guess the same mindset is still prevalent on many college campuses, and MusEd majors who have had valuable educational experiences in either marching band or drum corps know differently because they have lived it. Yet the very same college profs want you to have made all state, alldistrict, et. al to be considered for scholarships to their own august institutions. I can guarantee you that if you didn't have any background that can only be obtained through MUCH competition both on the ensemble and personal level, you wouldn't be worth their time to consider for scholarship. When winning becomes the main goal, then I agree there is a problem, but that is more on the directors priorities than on the benefits of competition itself (when priorities are in order). I have to agree here. I know too many band directors that lament that their whole year revolves around the TOB or BOA schedules and being competitive in those arenas that sometimes their winter programs can suffer neglect because they're starting their new fall program committee or meetings to discuss show ideas. There is a balance, and you really need to be prudent to keep that balance but when it comes to a choice between educating and being competitive in these circuits, in my book educating should win each and every time without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 As much as you may not believe it, there are studies out there that do indicate that a competitive environment is not the ideal one for learning. If your goal is only education, I believe it is better to have the smallest amount of competition involved as possible. While some may thrive and even desire this element, overall it is not the best for real education, IMO. So then, are you saying that these lifelong educators who invest themselves in the Drum Corps idiom are not educating? I have a certain Freddy Martin who would like to have a word with you regarding that assessment... and Wayne Downey, and Jim Prime, and Jim Ott (rip). It's just one reason why I would like drum corps to not sell itself as nothing more than a venue for music education. It is never going to do that as well as other programs can and has so much more to offer without intentionally trying to limit itself. The people who are educating in the Drum Corps idiom today have nothing but the highest regard for the education of the students. Sure, new techs and new caption heads have a period where they learn the balance, and find the place where they can maximize education for the students, but it's all education nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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