Rule Proposal 2008-02

[HoltonH178]

I gotta say, you either need some good scholarships or deep pockets to go to college and march corps every summer, at least in my experience. I'm already paying about $14k a year to go to a private school out-of-state (and that's a steal--without aid and scholarships, it would be $30k!), and since I live off-campus I also have lease/rent obligations through the summer...combine that with the fact that my school requires 169 credit hours to graduate with a Bachelor of Music in Mus Ed, flying to camps, loss of income in the summer, etc. etc. etc.

I really am okay with aging out in 2009. Really, guys. I appreciate the thought. But drum corps is already a demanding activity enough, there is already enough of an issue with age discrepancies and parity...and my pockets just ain't that deep. Maybe it's different in Jersey, but in the rest of the country, it's a different story.

[kac]

I see your point drumcat, however it took this moron 6 years to get the degree. I was screwing around the first 2 and wasn't doing work. I marched soph-junior and junior - senior. Whereas some of the classes I didn't do well on were Gen Ed's, some were also in my major, and my school doesn't offer any of those classes during the summer. Plus with my busy work load, I couldn't have fit in any more of the classes that I was redoing over in the regular semester, so I just had to take them other times. Had I been able to march another summer, it wouldn't have added more time to my graduation date.

I know this is only one guy's story, but maybe there are more. What I'd like to see is either this rule pass, or not being able to march at all when your 22. The poster whose birthday is May 31st couldn't march because of one day.

Also, let us not forget that some schools, especially music programs let you do a 5 year masters program, and I've known some of these people that have marched plus some who couldn't in the first few years do to their busy workload.

Kyle, it took me 5 years and two summers to get my BA. (I try not to round it up to six years, lol) I goofed off the first two years and intentionally took light loads those years so that I could work to pay for tour in the summer.

Then during year three (my ageout year that I did not march) I figured out that becuase of how my classes were offered, I had put myself on a SEVEN year track. I needed certain classes in the first two years (because they wouldn't be offered again for a number of years) and I didn't take them because I was working to pay for corps.

So I transfered to another school that was less expensive and that had the courses I needed. I spent the next four semesters taking a full load of 21 credits (I got waivers to do more than 18 credits) as well as two full summers.

I think being done with drum corps at 21/22 gives a person the time to finish up school and focus on getting out into the real world. Anyone that is older than that and wants to march should go to DCA.

[drumcat]

And if there's one thing to add here... Who the hell cares about college as a factor anyhow? Why should it matter? College doesn't define youth... youth doesn't define college. Let's not jump up and down about how many years college takes, and somehow artificially correlate that with what DCI should be.

DCI is a youth activity, and not an academic one. When DCI starts getting funded by the NCAA, then we can talk about changing eligibility. Until then, let's not confuse this with the "anticipated length of a university degree".

[Kyle B]

Either everyone ends at 21, or 22. No some 22's, all or nothing. Thats what I think.

[BOBSMYTH]

You have to draw the line somewhere. Somebody is always going to have a "I missed it by 3 days" story, no matter what the rule is.

Back in the day, you could not march in DCI Finals unless you were 21 years old or younger. (Well, at least that was the rule.)

That meant that if your birthday was August 12th and DCI Finals was August 13th, you could march all year - except for the last show.

I think the system we have now (you can march as long as you are 21 on June 1) makes sense to me and is about as fair as you can get without running up against the "How old can you be and still participate in a youth activity?" question.

[ToferVis]

And if there's one thing to add here... Who the hell cares about college as a factor anyhow? Why should it matter? College doesn't define youth... youth doesn't define college. Let's not jump up and down about how many years college takes, and somehow artificially correlate that with what DCI should be.

DCI is a youth activity, and not an academic one. When DCI starts getting funded by the NCAA, then we can talk about changing eligibility. Until then, let's not confuse this with the "anticipated length of a university degree".

Yes i agree with that point....however university degree is what hoppy is trying to base this on, so these people are not really in the wrong. *hides in corner*

Edited December 17, 2007 by ToferVis

[bluecoats88]

You have to draw the line somewhere. Somebody is always going to have a "I missed it by 3 days" story, no matter what the rule is.

Back in the day, you could not march in DCI Finals unless you were 21 years old or younger. (Well, at least that was the rule.)

That meant that if your birthday was August 12th and DCI Finals was August 13th, you could march all year - except for the last show.

I think the system we have now (you can march as long as you are 21 on June 1) makes sense to me and is about as fair as you can get without running up against the "How old can you be and still participate in a youth activity?" question.

Actually i believe the rule was if you turned 22 on or before the day of finals you could not march that whole season. We had a snare drummer who had marched with our corps since 1978 but in 1984 his birthday was on the day of finals. We were a small corps just coming off a folded season so there was no way we would still be competing in finals so our season would be over before he turned 22, but when he asked DCI management if he could march with us that summer the response was no. So he was on our percussion staff. Marched in one parade with us when one of our tenors was sick, so he used the guys uni to march in the parade.

[euponitone]

OK, well, for the sake of absurdity, let's eliminate the age restriction. Or let's make it 50.

This is like the minimum wage argument. Minimum wage could be $100, but a burger will cost $80. It's all relative.

There is a clear, rational reason for the age restriction being about 21. The reason is that society generally defines this age as the demarcation for "youth". The further you stray into the positive, the more risk you take in alienating all of the financial gifts and grants that organizations receive as a "youth activity".

Yes, it's cool to be able to march. But if we all agree that this is still "junior" drum corps, then why jeopardize it? Frankly, at some point, the age restriction is useless. For example, if it were 25, would this benefit the activity? Of course the players would mature, but you also do two things -- you remove the amateur element, and you remove the youth element.

You can't discount that this activity is made up of a bunch of non-profit youth organizations. If they are no longer youth organizations, you run the risk of losing funding for corps. And if you change, a corps can't stay a youth org because they'd be slaughtered competitively.

Average age is already a huge antagonist of competitive parity. Why make the problem worse?

If you wanted to make a useful rule, you could do something more creative, such as anyone who ages out in world may have a year in open the year after. A pseudo-staff-marcher, or "player-manager". Or you could even make a solid argument to repeal the bonus year rule based on average age and how it adversely affects non-finalists. That's not what this is about; this is a rule that is based around the idea of protecting a few corps in the upper-echelons by giving them an even bigger average-age advantage.

I would suggest that if you could ever get a hold of average-age and placement, you'll see for yourself the direct corollary.

You almost changed my mind.... and normally i cant stand your posts...

no offense

[drumcat]

You almost changed my mind.... and normally i cant stand your posts...

no offense

None taken. Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

[Mouthpiece1234]

Well drum corps international is a dying activity, I don't see how 5 months is anything that could speed it up or to get philosophically worried about in the scope of things.