bersurkman Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) I recently aquired an alto valve/rotor bugle. It is in excellent condition, not a mark on it! It does have one unusual characteristic: It has a satin finish. The inside of the bell is shiny silver, but the outside of the horn is brushed. The only place it is shiny is in the square where it lists FE Olds, Duratone. I am trying to find info on this horn, but getting anything from Olds is impossible. Anyone have an idea of when it may have been made? Does anyone know about why someone would order a satin finish? Was it custom or an option at the time? I'll post pictures when I can figure out how to get them up here. Thanks for any info! Edited February 21, 2008 by bersurkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnZ Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 it was an option, and the first time I saw it was around 1973. the satin finish was supposed to be more durable and less prone to show scratches. Sure others have more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I recently aquired an alto valve/rotor bugle. It is in excellent condition, not a mark on it! It does have one unusual characteristic: It has a satin finish. The inside of the bell is shiny silver, but the outside of the horn is brushed. The only place it is shiny is in the square where it lists FE Olds, Duratone. I am trying to find info on this horn, but getting anything from Olds is impossible. Anyone have an idea of when it may have been made? Does anyone know about why someone would order a satin finish? Was it custom or an option at the time? I'll post pictures when I can figure out how to get them up here. Thanks for any info! I think I remember someone saying that the satin finish was more a result of botched plating and so they would sand blast the finish to cover up the blemish and sell it as a satin finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) I think I remember someone saying that the satin finish was more a result of botched plating and so they would sand blast the finish to cover up the blemish and sell it as a satin finish. Someone told me that and think it might have been Jeff Mitchell, horn guru. Also think the horns had a cheaper price tag which would make sense as my corps had Olds Duratone Baris and Contras and we were pretty broke when the corps bought them (early '74). Only corps I know who had them: Westshoremen (Sr), Rochester Phoenix (Sr) and a junior corps (maybe Derry Patriots). Would love to see the pics as not sure what an Alto P/R horn is. We had a mix of P/R French Horns and Mellophones in Westshore and can't remember (#### 30 yr old memories) what finish they had. Edit: Memory kicked in. It was Jeff Mitchell but he was talking about a late 1930s Conn horn I bought that has the satin finish. Guess the sandblast for bad finishes still applied in the 70s. OK just saw Central Bucks in your sig and know where that is (my sister went to Delaware Valley). Wondering if you bought it locally and might be an old Westshoremen horn. Edited February 21, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyW Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) I recently aquired an alto valve/rotor bugle.....The inside of the bell is shiny silver, but the outside of the horn is brushed.....FE Olds, Duratone.... This must be a "bass" baritone - I play this model in KAC...same horn as the Ultratone, except for finish. I don't remember Olds ever making an "alto" or (plain) baritone horn....by the early '70s, most corps had switched their lines to all bass baritones, because (plain) small baritones had incredible back-pressure and little projection. Really, one bass bari player could overpower 2 or 3 (plain) baris, and yet have better tone... I can envision a corps buying this satin finish to minimize the appearance of future dents and dings... Edited February 22, 2008 by GuyW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofjabba Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Duratones weren't much cheaper than the ultratones. I had a duratone contrabass a couple years ago with the satin finish too. They play the same. Honestly I like the satin finish myself. I'm currently restoring a Ultratone contrabass that looks like it was used as a kick ball/football/weapon whatever, Not a straight branch on it. I couldn't believe it actually played almost in tune as it was. I Love the old Olds Horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 OK this is DEG and it's for 2 valve bugles, but this is a spec sheet that shows where the voicing of the alto bugle fell in the mid voice range. Hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Zig Kanstul was not only the designer at Olds, but also a manager of the Velvet Knights in the mid-60s. He built various custom horns for his corps, and these instruments were the prototypes for the Olds Duratone bugles which were introduced in the 1968 season when the G-F bugle was legalized. The initial product line was the soprano, mellophone, and long French Horn. The baritone and contra came out the next season. Zig's last design was the stubby French Horn, and then the company in 1970 was absorbed by the infamous Norlin conglamorate. Zig went out the door and down the road to Benge, and quality control went out the window. A flugel was added to the line - it was just a flugel bell attached to the body of a mellophone. This is probably the horn we are talking about. Olds never did produce a true Alto model. The Ultratone bugles were chrome plated. To do this, the entire instrument had to be buffed - a dirty labor-intensive task. Now chrome will only adhere to nickel, nickel will only adhere to copper, and copper will adhere to many metals. So chrome plating is a three-step process. For whatever reason, the Duratone serties of bugles were introduced. They were acoustically the same instruments, built from the same components. But only the interior of the bell was brightly buffed. The body of the horn recieved a quick sandblasting. Then a flash coat of copperplate was followed by a layer of nickel. The interior of the bell then was lacquered, since nickel will oxidize. The Duratones were sold for a lower price because they were cheaper to produce. Any percieved differences between nickel and chromed horns are pretty much negated by the outdoor ambience where they are deployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I can envision a corps buying this satin finish to minimize the appearance of future dents and dings... Strange thing is I don't remember seeing that many dings/dents on the horns we had. Maybe we were lucky or scared of the "wrath of Hershman" if we damaged them. Also can't remember seeing any scratches on the Duratone finish either. My current horn has plenty of surface scratchs due to previous owner polishing with the wrong stuff. The flat finish was great practicing on sunny days. You did not get the sun reflecting off your bell into your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bersurkman Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Here are pictures of the horn. I am 99% sure that it is an alto, as my wife played one in her younger days. If anyone can offer any more info I would be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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