ToferVis Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 you know, i personally hate smokers (in the sense of having to be around one) but I HATE these 'lets ban all smoking everywhere' debates that every has gotten into lately. I just don't think it's that big of deal....or that bad really. If we tried to fix all the black smoke trucks put out on the road we'd be doing a far greater justice to our society. while i realize i may be OT i just wanted to say that &*shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 you know, i personally hate smokers (in the sense of having to be around one) but I HATE these 'lets ban all smoking everywhere' debates that every has gotten into lately. I just don't think it's that big of deal....or that bad really. If we tried to fix all the black smoke trucks put out on the road we'd be doing a far greater justice to our society.while i realize i may be OT i just wanted to say that &*shrug* That's like saying "Why are we trying to end obesity when cancer doesn't have a cure?" They are separate issues with separate solutions and it's not like solving one is preventing us from solving another. You are presenting a false dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Interesting poke at Indian Casinos. While you're at their casinos complaining about how they have ruined your youth activities, also be sure to appoligize for taking all of their land in the 1800s and murdening them by the thousands. Perspective. I haven't read the article, so I can't comment on it in particular. But one thing that has hampered nonprofits in Wisconsin in the bingo arena is the unlevel playing field with the laws themselves. Nonprofits are restricted as to the prize monies allowed to be won and other issues, while the Native American gaming has very liberal guidelines. The nonprofits cannot compete on those unlevel terms. Many bingo programs in the State of Wisconsin have fallen by the wayside due to the the fact they are restricted to offering winning of up to $1000 per session, while the Native American gaming pacts allow unlimited jackpots. There is no incentive to attend (as example) a parish bingo night when a chartered bus will do a free pick up and offer a ride to a Native American casino at a chance to win bigger jackpots. And it doesn't matter if it's Native American gaming, a corporate gaming facility or whoever.........the playing field should be level to all profit or nonprofits within the laws of the state. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssorrell Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 How many corps still have bingo as a major source of income? As a former corps manager and bingo volunteer, bingo started dying decades ago, way before smoking bans started. In Atlanta, our Bingo game was one of Spirit's main source of income for a while. Once a month however, when the large Indian Casino in North Carolina ran their game, we might as well have shut our doors, as busloads of locals ventured up there for their million dollar weekend prizes (collectively, not single prizes). In GA, we were so over regulated it was hard to compete. We couldn't give away more than a couple thousand per night, and when you play a dozen games, that sort of weakens the attraction. If I remember correctly, our last cover all game only gave a prize of less than $500. That's chump change compared to other states and especially the indian games. So, for us, the state was one of the factors that kept our game from soaring. Then, in the late 80s or early 90s, the lottery was introduced into the state for the first time. There went the bingo game as we knew it. The corps tried to continue a game for a few years after the lottery came, but it never saw its earlier successes. I would imagine that as lotteries all across the nation have grown in popularity, a big falloff was realized in gambling revenues from monies that would have otherwise been used in bingo games. I know that 20 years ago I had heard that other Div 1 corps were having to find a way to replace their bingo income, as they just couldn't rely on it any further. So while a smoking ban may hurt what bingo games are left, I still can't help but wonder...just how many corps games still exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I haven't read the article, so I can't comment on it in particular. But one thing that has hampered nonprofits in Wisconsin in the bingo arena is the unlevel playing field with the laws themselves. Nonprofits are restricted as to the prize monies allowed to be won and other issues, while the Native American gaming has very liberal guidelines. The nonprofits cannot compete on those unlevel terms. Thanks Bill, totally forgot about this in PA. According to a newpaperman who complains about this from time to time the PA law regulating amounts hasn't been changed in decades. No idea if this affects non-profits or private groups, or maybe both, but he keeps bringing up the AL and VFW as examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalieguy Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 As an aside, Pennsylvania is fighting out having a smoking ban for resturants and bars along with Bingo halls and the like. You should see the nasty letters to the editor flying back and forth on this. Like I posted before PA doesn't have Indian Casinos (Hades, state just opened it's own). There is a lot of political pressure going on with the ban but the pro-ban pressure is coming from health groups.Back when I worked Bingo if you were concerned about your health or had any type of breathing problems you stayed out of Bingo Halls. Wondering how many non-smokers never became a Bingo fan because of this. So smokers supposedly won't play if there is a ban and non-smokers never played because of the smoke. Sounds to me, the Bingo Halls are <bleeped> either way. PS - From what I can tell Bingo has been going downhill in my area even before the smoking fight. Appears the younger generation doesn't play as much as the older folks and the older folks are dying off or can't afford to play like they used to. (Hmm, Bingo tonight or a couple of gallons of Fuel Oil and get a perscription filled?) Jim - your observations are not just 'rule of thumb' in PA. Since the article specifically mentioned MN as well as the situation w/ BD, I can only concur with many of the comments made about charitable gambling revenues being affected by smoking bans. MBI has been running pull-tabs in a number of St. Paul bars since the mid 90's. I spent many a night in a claustrophobic smoke-filled lounge working the stand to raise funds for the corps. Before pull-tabs, MBI had their own bingo operation, which was dessimated by a number of occurrances, including Reservation Casino/Bingo startups, law changes eliminating the use of traditional bingo cards in favor of paper sheets, the establishment of the Gambling Control Board at the state level, and the anti-smoking campaigns. Legions/VFW's and bars had been some of the last vestiges of uncontrolled areas where that connection between smoking and gambling existed until Hennepin county (Mpls. and surrounding area) put the smoking ban in bars into place. That has since been followed by the current statewide ban as noted in the article. I have no specific numbers, but I suspect that the gambling revenue for MBI has been diminished substantially over the last 3-5 years. The outstanding members of the MBI board have been continually looking into other methods of fundraising in order to keep ahead of the game..and to their credit, they have been reasonably successful. It's an on-going never-ending process. I hope that what seems to be an unending connection between smokers and their 'vices' will not become the death nell for ANY drum corps to lose all of their opportunity to generate gambling revenue. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluteBoy Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 If you really examine the industry they are merely puppets dancing at the end of strings, some very powerful and well financed strings. Hey guys ... Funny enough, in my same anthro class with the powwow, we also studied Wayang Kulit the famous shadow puppet shows of Bali -- fascinating really. I even made my own shadow puppet show for the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Someone once said I knew a little bit about bingo... That being said, I will not go into politics - See folks, the bottom line is that the changes in bingo have had a dramatic impact on drum corps, but saying that smoking bans killed drum corps is like blaming DCI for all the changes that have had to occur to survive... It's the times folks... From 1950 to 2008, I can trace the evolution of bingo... but most of the changes happened as society changed... Smoking was just one angle... in truth, the entire times article is about 3 years late... although I was pleased to hear the my good friend Clyde Bock has survived... but you know what? Clyde Bock's style of bingo is a far cry from any drum corps operation. It is full commercial bingo, (he gets a nice salary, hires all the employees that are needed and gives a check to the charity once a quarter - NOT legal in most states.) but he has managed to survive as he said, because all of his competitors (including Seattle Cascades at the time) gave up... By elimination of all of his competition save the Indians, he apparently has survived (for now)... The long termed bingo problem is that the customers are quite literally dying and not being replaced by younger players as they (potential younger bingo players) have become accustomed to other society provided opportunities to relieve themselves of their discretionary money... That being said, the short termed problem that a smoking ban that applied to one bingo hall and did not apply to another 1 mile away - we simply must do what we must to survive and keep the activity alive... and unfortunately, that means change is inevitable. Don't change, don't roll with the punches and you will pass on like everything else in society. Edited to remove political statements that I should have known better not to put on drum corps board... Sorry... Edited April 30, 2008 by TomPeashey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdewine Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Tom- I see your point regarding growing wheat instead of tobacco. But you, more than most, understand how those pesky Racing and Wagering Boards can be. When everyone 'switched' to wheat.....they would outlaw sandwiches in bingo halls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I have just edited my post to remove the political statements that don't belong on a drum corps board... Mark, as you know, I know plenty about state regulatory agencies, but you might be surprised to know that I actually don't believe they should be eliminated but rather, that they function fairly and equally... Jim or someone earlier made points about PA bingo... I can tell you that the charity games in PA would be better off with more regulation or at least more law enforcement than what they have now that literally allows crooks to set up shop and run commercial bingo until they get caught which usually takes about 18 months... and then move on to a different city and reopen... I am VERY familiar with this situation... and it happens because the only one with any authority over bingo in the state is the local District Attorney. They generally do not act until they get MANY complaints. Understandably, they have much more important things to deal with - considering limited staff and budget... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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