Blue Devils 2007

[rut-roh]

Tonight only on DCP....posters try to act like they're more important than they are to the activity, while members and staff of various corps and DCI laugh at their monitor.

Tonight, and EVERY night, same Bat-time, same Bat-channel...only on your favorite source of drum corps hilarity...Drum Corps Planet! :)

[cowtown]

Just want to clear a few things up…

I thought the Blue Devils should have won, even said that in the opening statement, that they would have won without this effect, they were the best corps I saw at finals, I'm glad they won. I consider myself a Blue Devils fan…if you need proof, dig out one of those old Cadets should have won thread and read what I wrote. And No, I don’t think the results should be changed now.

It was not discussed in August because I did not know about it until September and I doubt (m)any outside of Blue Devils did either….I could be wrong, maybe they contacted DCI and DCI said ‘cool…go with it’. They did add it mid-season, we had a thread when it went in that described the laugh. They said it was similar to a WGI show from 1997 based upon Dante’s Inferno (I think it was Northmont…not sure on the name but I did watch the show, cool show btw…do a search and I bet you can find that thread on here also).

Cheating may be a strong word but that’s what I think it was, now whether it was willful and deliberate….I don’t yet know, but ignorance of the law is no excuse.

In the rules regarding instrumentation, there is nothing that allows for this instrument or effect. The rule for amps that is posted is really the wrong rule to be looking at but if you want to get picky, it violates the amp rule too. It states ‘can be amplified with the use of microphone, speakers, mixer boards and all necessary electronic equipment’. Plugging into a modulator is not ‘necessary electronic equipment’. But again, the rule in concern is about allowed instrumentation. So anyone want to post that rule ?

And effects are electronic instruments, more so when it’s an effect as dramatic as dropping a note three octaves, a note that they can not reproduce without electronics

I really thought this was more commonly known and did not want to get into ‘did they or didn’t they’, my mind is made up, it’s pretty clear cut imo, plus another corps had to remove their delay on the voice….but I did want to discuss what it means to people, what their thoughts were in regards to the incident.

I do put this on DCI but also on the Blue Devils….without consistent rule enforcement, the activity lacks integrity.

Had something similar happened in a real major league sport, they might be having a congressional hearing. I would think it’s in DCI’s best interest to clear this up or at least address it in a meaningful way. I tend to think they need to re-write the rule too and make it clear….clear that effects are electronic instruments and thusly not allowed...because they were not accorded for in the allowable instrumentation rule…I do believe they’d look foolish claiming this effect is not an electronic instrument, kind of like ketchup is a vegetable foolish

I get that for many the Blue Devils are your favorite corps and that you might not like this topic but you can’t wish it away, lock the thread and go all Pollyanna. Sorry it was them but I’d be here talking about the same thing regardless of the corps, it’s just more glaring in their case because they won

so do you think DCI should deal with it and if so, how? What are the implications, what does this mean to you?

[euphononium]

Ambulance on the field (2005 DCA Prelims - Renegades)

Prop job plane coming in for landing at Allentown Airport (1977 DCA Finals - Westshoremen)

Hershey, PA Fire Siren (1976 Srs Salute the US mid season recording - Skyliners)

All have been recorded so maybe we should check the scores to see how the effect came across.

Almost forgot, heard a recording of my corps at Gettysburg College a few years ago. There are train tracks behind the field and a train came thru during our show. The "effect" of the bell (CLANG, CLANG, CLANG) didn't work too well. (Think one of our members brothers was on the train and was telling us he liked the show. )

I think it was during semifinals, Phantom's "On Air" show featured a plane flying overhead in between the ballad and the third movement. It was a little late as far as timing goes, they had asked the guy to pass by at the beginning of 1000 Airplanes. He got cut for finals.

[thatguywiththehat]

It sounds like an old fashioned conspiracy theory...

BD cheating, with help from the Cadets, just so an electronics rule can pass?

i don't buy it.

[euphononium]

Just want to clear a few things up…

I thought the Blue Devils should have won, even said that in the opening statement, that they would have won without this effect, they were the best corps I saw at finals, I'm glad they won. I consider myself a Blue Devils fan…if you need proof, dig out one of those old Cadets should have won thread and read what I wrote. And No, I don’t think the results should be changed now.

It was not discussed in August because I did not know about it until September and I doubt (m)any outside of Blue Devils did either….I could be wrong, maybe they contacted DCI and DCI said ‘cool…go with it’. They did add it mid-season, we had a thread when it went in that described the laugh. They said it was similar to a WGI show from 1997 based upon Dante’s Inferno (I think it was Northmont…not sure on the name but I did watch the show, cool show btw…do a search and I bet you can find that thread on here also).

Cheating may be a strong word but that’s what I think it was, now whether it was willful and deliberate….I don’t yet know, but ignorance of the law is no excuse.

In the rules regarding instrumentation, there is nothing that allows for this instrument or effect. The rule for amps that is posted is really the wrong rule to be looking at but if you want to get picky, it violates the amp rule too. It states ‘can be amplified with the use of microphone, speakers, mixer boards and all necessary electronic equipment’. Plugging into a modulator is not ‘necessary electronic equipment’. But again, the rule in concern is about allowed instrumentation. So anyone want to post that rule ?

And effects are electronic instruments, more so when it’s an effect as dramatic as dropping a note three octaves, a note that they can not reproduce without electronics

I really thought this was more commonly known and did not want to get into ‘did they or didn’t they’, my mind is made up, it’s pretty clear cut imo, plus another corps had to remove their delay on the voice….but I did want to discuss what it means to people, what their thoughts were in regards to the incident.

I do put this on DCI but also on the Blue Devils….without consistent rule enforcement, the activity lacks integrity.

Had something similar happened in a real major league sport, they might be having a congressional hearing. I would think it’s in DCI’s best interest to clear this up or at least address it in a meaningful way. I tend to think they need to re-write the rule too and make it clear….clear that effects are electronic instruments and thusly not allowed...because they were not accorded for in the allowable instrumentation rule…I do believe they’d look foolish claiming this effect is not an electronic instrument, kind of like ketchup is a vegetable foolish

I get that for many the Blue Devils are your favorite corps and that you might not like this topic but you can’t wish it away, lock the thread and go all Pollyanna. Sorry it was them but I’d be here talking about the same thing regardless of the corps, it’s just more glaring in their case because they won

so do you think DCI should deal with it and if so, how? What are the implications, what does this mean to you?

I would love for DCI to save face a little bit on this issue, but in another year it will all be fair game. Why bother?

So glad I aged out when I did...

[MikeD]

so do you think DCI should deal with it and if so, how? What are the implications, what does this mean to you?

IMO....

There is no "it" to deal with, so no, DCI should not do something about nothing.

[danielray]

We never really talked about the Blue Devils cheating scandal of 2007 and I’d be curious to know what others think.

Firstly, they did cheat; they used electronics that dropped vocals 3 octaves for the demon laugh in space cords. This is not debatable, nor is it the issue I wish to discuss. Secondly, they would have won w/out using electronics, it was a silly risk but if DCI enforced their own rules on final’s night….Cadets would have won. The first time an illegal instrument is used, it’s at least a one point penalty, the second and following times it is disqualification.

I have a few thought on the matter, they are not really ‘hashed’ out though so I welcome others’ input and thoughts on the matter

I believed that their use of electronics ensured the passing of electronic instruments. DCI wanted to cover their tracks and get electronic in a.s.a.p to minimize the potential damage to their industry. I do wonder how this plays into Cadets not protesting BD’s electronics too….would Hop give BD a free pass, not lodge a complaint, knowing this would help his proposal of getting electronics passed? Had Cadets complained on finals night, they would have won. Maybe, no one from Cadets knew but…maybe

I also wonder about the judging of DCI. Placements and championships have been determined by tenths or less and 9 judges on 3 consecutive days missed this repeated infraction? 27 judges read, not to count all the other times DCI judged this show and no one noticed? I find that difficult to believe. I’ve often thought I heard effected amps prior but was ‘naw, DCI would not be so sloppy on their lack of enforcement’ I’m pretty sure they were and many other corps have gotten away w/ illegal electronic effects too….which brings me to, were Blue Devils predestined to win DCI? Finals in Cali, big anniversary year, greatest hit show package…not even the rules would prevent Blue Devils from being champs. Is DCI fixed, a fraud and if so, does it matter? Is it fair to the marchers or fans? So yeah, the judging is really poor regardless.

Then I wonder about Blue Devils themselves? Why would they take this risk, did they know it wouldn’t be counted against them? I understand they voted to pass electronic instruments, do they not know what electronic instruments are? Would they vote to pass something they don’t understand?

Like I said, just a few thoughts of mine, so what are yours?

Just out of curiosity, which are you more fluent in... Klingon or Elvish?

[MikeD]

I would love for DCI to save face a little bit on this issue, but in another year it will all be fair game. Why bother?

Why do they have to 'save face' about a non-event?

[JimF-LowBari]

I think it was during semifinals, Phantom's "On Air" show featured a plane flying overhead in between the ballad and the third movement. It was a little late as far as timing goes, they had asked the guy to pass by at the beginning of 1000 Airplanes. He got cut for finals.

LMAO, funny part about Westshore and the plane at 1977 DCA was none of the corps members heard the plane. It was at the end of the second drum solo which ended loud then trailed off to just the bells playing. The plane came over at this point and everyones ears were still ringing or concentrating so much on the DM that we didn't notice anything else (first time in Finals in many years).

Then we heard the album a few months later and it was "What the #### is THAT?" One of the bass drummers then remembered seeing a plane out of the corner of his eye but he might have been the only one.

[euponitone]

... at people calling the starter of this topic a cadets 'borg'. Have you been living under a rock for the past hundred years?!?!?! We're talking about the guy who had (and maybe still has) the quote "theyre booing because they hate you" in his signature line. He's maybe the most vocal anti-cadets person out there. I have yet to see any member, fan, or fmm of the cadets say anything BUT the blue devils should have won. Cowtown is equally obnoxious to everyone it seems - so stop trying to put words in our freaking mouths.... :bla: Edited May 22, 2008 by euponitone