St Johns Drum & Bugle Corps

[KeithHall]

Chester,

Be honest with yourself and us...you are a prima donna who just had no loyalty for your Div III corps. Maybe you even had an argument with staff because you felt you knew more than they. Then one day you went to a big corps that automatically made you better than all the Div II and Div III members out there. I saw this at college when I was 20 years older than the students that I went to school with. The kid who marched a year of Cadets and thought he was hot stuff. He then went on to teach a DCA corps and couldn't handle it, so then he went to a Div III corps and his work there was less than par.

You had a bad experience and now are taking it out on all those loyal Ontario Div II and Div III members who busted their butts while you worked hard in a corps that had all the best players in North America. One of the problems about drum corps in DCI or DCA is loyalty. Years ago it was the local corps you joined but then bigger corps started opening up to get the best from all over the country...no problem right? This also caused some (note some) corps to go smaller or not field at all.

There was a junior corps in Western NY that came out in 1982 as the Renegades, nice size corps with potential. This was seen by a few people who were in Garfield and kids were recruited. The same thing happened with a senior corps that was starting up in Rochester. So a large contingent went to the senior corps and and another went to Garfield. The Renegades had changed their name to The Royal Legacy, got a corporate sponsor but GUESS WHAT? No members!

Instead of bad mouthing Ontario, go help make them a contender and use what you supposedly learn from your day with the BIG corps. My experience in Ontario was going to shows and competing against some darn good corps ALL OF THEM! I loved meeting the Canadian members because it wasn't about hating them it was knowing them.

SO ST. John's... thank you for your efforts and much success for your corps!!!!

I see that the small Ontario corps instructors are quick with their knee-jerk, defensive response. Again, I'm sorry I hit a nerve.

But, I don't need to defend myself or my view. The record speaks for itself. We're talking middle-of-the-road div III, which is not a good thing if you're intent is to kick some ###. And I don't blame the players. I point my finger squarely at instruction.

If this corps could compete heavily against current DCA corps, then there would have to be DCI corps in Ontario to draw from. If you look at Renegades as an example, they are made up of largely x Blue Devils and x SCV, including instructors, and even they struggle to get into the top 6 at DCA. So let's be realistic here.

I spent a few years in a couple of small - mid-sized corps when I first started out, and the management loved to hype us on how good we were, and how we were robbed at shows when we kept losing. And we all believed management. We all began to despise judges and thought that drum corps was corrupt. All because of management's perspective that was forced on us. But after marching in a couple of top 12 DCI corps, I then realized what the difference was between a good corps and a not-so-good corps. And I realized that I was lied to all those early years. Did they do it out of ignorance or did they just not want to admit they did a bad job with us. And that was TWO separate corps that I was with that did that!

It's that ignorance of not knowing the difference between good and bad that is causing the local Ontario corps to think they are all that, despite their record. And, one of the biggest reasons a corps is not good is instructors that just simply should not be teaching or writing. I know there was talent in these corps, but it has never been properly nurtured.

So yes, a handful of naturally talented people managed to escape to good DCI corps. Getting out of Ontario, was the smartest move they could make. But you can't expect them all to want to return to the activity. They may have other priorities now. Plus, once you've marched DCI, it's sometimes hard to return to anything less. Consequently, I think this corps is going to end up with a mixed bag, consisting mostly of people who were never taught correctly.

This should be a "fun" adventure. If you re-read what I wrote, I was trying to be very encouraging for this new venture. But I was also trying to shed some realism so that expectations would not get unrealistic. That's all. I truly wish the corps the best of success in helping to keep Canadian drum corps alive. I only wish I could be a part of it, but logistics prevent it.

P.S. Thanks for the PM's from people who supported my point. And I appreciate that this small tidbit of advice has gotten out of hand, so, since I've clarified my point, I won't disrupt this initial topic by debating it further.

[TenorsForWorldDomination]

Don't worry, his logic is asinine at best. According to his, all instructors in Ontario are no good. I'm not even going to mention names, because everyone knows who came out of Ontario. Some #### fine names. Big or small.

Feel sorry? For what? I got a great music education participating in ODCA in the mid 90's. I wouldn't take it back for anything, coincidentally that instructor that gave me my music education was my instructor in DCA as well. He gave us the tools to take ourselves to a Top 5 finish in drums in DCA prelims 2002. Guess where he came from? Kiwanis Kavaliers and other Ontario corps.

I think we just have a case of someone that wasn't asked to be involved.

St John's will rip it up in DCA. Does that mean they will win DCA A Class or Open Class? No. No one said "WIN" We said terms like kick-###, rip it up, watch out. That doesn't mean win.

Either way, everyone wins in this situation. Another corps representing Canada in DCA, members can travel less, people get the chance to march a corps in their backyard, fans get to see even more corps.

ROCK ON ST. JOHN'S! It will be great to see those uniforms back on the field.

[AlbionNY Drum Line]

I kind of agree with some of the points Chester is making (well I don't know the facts but I know this does happen in drum corps), but maybe not the best thread or way to communicate his advice

Here is to St. Johns kickin some ###!!

[kusankusho]

I kind of agree with some of the points Chester is making (well I don't know the facts but I know this does happen in drum corps), but maybe not the best thread or way to communicate his advice

The observation that a staff can over-hype their corps with unreasonable expectations - sure.

The dismissal of Ontario drum corps as sub-standard? Absolutely not. Dutch Boy has a bronze medal to prove it. That was what got me ###### with the guy.

[TenorsForWorldDomination]

The observation that a staff can over-hype their corps with unreasonable expectations - sure.

The dismissal of Ontario drum corps as sub-standard? Absolutely not. Dutch Boy has a bronze medal to prove it. That was what got me ###### with the guy.

Oakland of the past...###### drumline. Kiwanis '96 and '97 biting the butts of the top DCI Div I corps, that small Academy Musicale corps wowing everyone. I don't need to go on. Kusankusho, you know where it's at!

[Shannen & Sean]

Just wanted to reply to the last post. People have been talking about the sucess of Ontario corps, and how the memebership of this all ages corps will be full of talent.(oh beleive me it will!!!) The last post mentioned the sucess of some corps.....BUT no one is talking about the corps at hand

In the 90's ( the years myself and husband marched Stjohns) 5 time DCI Finalist, Lost count of how many times the corps won Canadian Nationals. The colour guard earned a WGI bronze medal. So I think its safe to say the staff was MORE than Qualified( some of these staff memebers are DCI judges) Also the corps was run by the best director. AKA SANDY WALLACE!!!!

AND the members knew how to stay loyal to their corps, because they didnt marched with 40 horns 7 nsares, doesnt not make thme any less talented. AND for those who wanted to see what it was like did go to to Div II and Open class corps and some winning DCI ( Cadets, Phantom, Bluecoats, Boston, Crossmen, Glassmen, Patriots, just to name a few)

[TenorsForWorldDomination]

Just wanted to reply to the last post. People have been talking about the sucess of Ontario corps, and how the memebership of this all ages corps will be full of talent.(oh beleive me it will!!!) The last post mentioned the sucess of some corps.....BUT no one is talking about the corps at hand

In the 90's ( the years myself and husband marched Stjohns) 5 time DCI Finalist, Lost count of how many times the corps won Canadian Nationals. The colour guard earned a WGI bronze medal. So I think its safe to say the staff was MORE than Qualified( some of these staff memebers are DCI judges) Also the corps was run by the best director. AKA SANDY WALLACE!!!!

AND the members knew how to stay loyal to their corps, because they didnt marched with 40 horns 7 nsares, doesnt not make thme any less talented. AND for those who wanted to see what it was like did go to to Div II and Open class corps and some winning DCI ( Cadets, Phantom, Bluecoats, Boston, Crossmen, Glassmen, Patriots, just to name a few)

I remember St. John's winning quite a bit in the ODCA circuit when I marched against them. I don't remember how they did at DCI's in those years. There were 44 some odd Div III corps at DCI's those years! WOW!

I still remember seeing St. John's almost every day or weekend in the 90's. I was always impressed by the class and professionalism that organization portrayed. Again, I can't wait to see all that again.

[JOHNNY_A]

Absolutely!

You're dreamin' !

Look - I think starting this all age corps is really great. But you're drawing from a pool of defunct mediocre div III corps, at best! You ain't kickin' nobody's ###! Not when you're up against X members of top DCI corps. So instead, go out there and have some FUN! But don't start telling the troops that they are going to be competitive, because you'll set them up for a huge let down. And then they may leave in frustration. I urge you to make this about having a good time. Get them excited about just performing again.

As an aside, make sure you hire some better instructors than what taught those Ontario div III corps that you're drawing from.

[bedford]

Chester,

Be honest with yourself and us...you are a prima donna who just had no loyalty for your Div III corps. Maybe you even had an argument with staff because you felt you knew more thn they. Then one day you went to a big corps that automatically made you better than all the Div II and Div III members out there. I saw this at college when I was 20 years older than the students that I went to school with. The kid who marched a year of Cadets and thought he was hot stuff. He then went on to teach a DCA corps and couldn't handle it, so then he went to a Div III corps and his work there was less than par.

You had a bad experience and now are taking it out on all those loyal Ontario Div II and Div III members who busted their butts while you worked hard in a corps that had all the best players in North America. One of the problems about drum corps in DCI or DCA is loyalty. Years ago it was the local corps you joined but then bigger corps started opening up to get the best from all over the country...no problem right? This also caused some (note some) corps to go smaller or not field at all.

There was a junior corps in Western NY that came out in 1982 as the Renegades, nice size corps with potential. This was seen by a few people who were in Garfield and kids were recruited. The same thing happened with a senior corps that was starting up in Rochester. So a large contingent went to the senior corps and and another twent to Garfieald. The Renegades had changed their name to The Royal Legacy, got a corpohrate sponsor but GUESS WHAT? Nto members!

Instead of bad mouthing Ontario, go help make them a contender and use what you supposed ly learn from your day with the BIG corps. Mgy experience in Ontario was going to shows and competing against some darnn good corps ALL OF THEM! I loved meeting the Canadian members because it wiasn't about hating them it was knowing them.

SO ST. John's... thank you for your efforts and much sutccess for your corps!!!!

Ok .....let's all cut Chester a break (all of us but Jimmy that is) .. he blow it forgetting that drum corps in SWO existed prior to 1995 or whatever year he was so desperately disappointed and disillinsioned.

I think I''ll check this out. I know the chops still work, not sure about that marching thing anymore though.

[JOHNNY_A]

I see that the small Ontario corps instructors are quick with their knee-jerk, defensive response. Again, I'm sorry I hit a nerve.

But, I don't need to defend myself or my view. The record speaks for itself. We're talking middle-of-the-road div III, which is not a good thing if you're intent is to kick some ###. And I don't blame the players. I point my finger squarely at instruction.

If this corps could compete heavily against current DCA corps, then there would have to be DCI corps in Ontario to draw from. If you look at Renegades as an example, they are made up of largely x Blue Devils and x SCV, including instructors, and even they struggle to get into the top 6 at DCA. So let's be realistic here.

I spent a few years in a couple of small - mid-sized corps when I first started out, and the management loved to hype us on how good we were, and how we were robbed at shows when we kept losing. And we all believed management. We all began to despise judges and thought that drum corps was corrupt. All because of management's perspective that was forced on us. But after marching in a couple of top 12 DCI corps, I then realized what the difference was between a good corps and a not-so-good corps. And I realized that I was lied to all those early years. Did they do it out of ignorance or did they just not want to admit they did a bad job with us. And that was TWO separate corps that I was with that did that!

It's that ignorance of not knowing the difference between good and bad that is causing the local Ontario corps to think they are all that, despite their record. And, one of the biggest reasons a corps is not good is instructors that just simply should not be teaching or writing. I know there was talent in these corps, but it has never been properly nurtured.

So yes, a handful of naturally talented people managed to escape to good DCI corps. Getting out of Ontario, was the smartest move they could make. But you can't expect them all to want to return to the activity. They may have other priorities now. Plus, once you've marched DCI, it's sometimes hard to return to anything less. Consequently, I think this corps is going to end up with a mixed bag, consisting mostly of people who were never taught correctly.

This should be a "fun" adventure. If you re-read what I wrote, I was trying to be very encouraging for this new venture. But I was also trying to shed some realism so that expectations would not get unrealistic. That's all. I truly wish the corps the best of success in helping to keep Canadian drum corps alive. I only wish I could be a part of it, but logistics prevent it.

P.S. Thanks for the PM's from people who supported my point. And I appreciate that this small tidbit of advice has gotten out of hand, so, since I've clarified my point, I won't disrupt this initial topic by debating it further.