Dissension in today's ranks.

[84BDsop]

hmnn... I would have said "about 10 pounds".

All in the bell.....SO glad I play soprano!

[Puppet]

hmnn... I would have said "about 10 pounds".

And you would be right. Bigger tubing, rounder sound and you need more air of course we marched with Euphs in 1969 and 1970. But does anyone remember alto horns?

Puppet

[GuyW]

[sidebar]baritones are analogous to tenor trombones, and euphoniums are like bass trombones. That's simplistic and ignores a lot of things, but it's a good rule of thumb.

You're posting about bass-baritones here....(plain) baritones actually sounded more like tenor trombones (when you could hear them)...

[84BDsop]

And you would be right. Bigger tubing, rounder sound and you need more air of course we marched with Euphs in 1969 and 1970. But does anyone remember alto horns?

Puppet

Someone was selling a few of them on the board last week...they look like a mello and a bari had a child....play like it, too (VERY stuffy, as i recall...and you tuned by adjusting the length of the leadpipe)

[apoch003]

Bring back the French Horns!

[lindap]

Bring back the French Horns!

Thanks to prior posts providing context to the baritone/euphonium. Spent time last evening researching the instruments.

I did read a number of threads for about a year and I understand there are no French Horns nor Flugel Horns in drum corps today, Mellophones, yes. If I may add a 'd' word to the thread title, disappointing.

edit: I practised baritone for the girls in '78 but lacked embouchure but my youngest plays tenor trombone :)

Edited July 15, 2008 by lindap

[CrunchyTenor]

Yes, I know.

You are perfectly free to be wrong.

Interesting debate. Most of this we have debated before.

But this statement popped out at me. So, Mike, I have to ask again, what makes you state that people are wrong just because they have a differing point of view? Who's to say that YOU'RE not wrong? You and I actually agree on a lot of things, and we differ on a few. But to state that someone is wrong is just...well....wrong.

Unless it's something static, like instrument construction specifications, or something equally finite, there's a lot of latitude on how people perceive things, including drum corps in it's former, current and future state.

Anyway, nice discussion. And mostly civil, too.

I'll give my opinion. Some of you have read it before, so bear with me.

I have no problem with valved brass. 2V was cool, but 3V makes more sense.

I prefer G brass, but have come to accept Bb/F brass.

Grounded pits make sense, especially to anyone who carried a keyboard.

Battery percussion technology rocks, and tenor and bass lines are over the moon compared to 1980.

Current drill design is amazing.

The talent level is phenominal.

I heard a little narration that worked. Because there was just a little.

BUT...

I had no problem hearing the pit, even with G brass, which sounded louder to me.

Snare drums had more guts (no pun intended) with mylar heads.

Drill design rocks, but execution is lacking. Even during finals week. Where do demand and execution meet to provide the best of both? IMO, design has passed the ability to execute.

Squad marching may have been simpler in design, but don't think for a minute it was any easier, especially in a tick-based judging system.

Spread todays talent over more corps and see how different the corps sound. Talent is more concentrated. Open class corps from 1980 would sound better if there were only 20 to choose from, too.

Indoor guard belongs indoor.

Too much narration=less big brass and percussion moments. Sell me the concept with music and visual. If you have to tell me what it is, it's a bad idea.

It's a different world. Yes, I appreciate all eras. But if I had to draw the line anywhere, it has to be when drum corps stopped being 100% acoustic. Sorry, but actually playing 4-mallet technique outshines someone pushing a key to create an effect. Or, figuring out how to produce the effect without having to resort to electronics requires more creativity than pushing a key on a keyboard. (Standard reference: SCV's helicopters in 1991)

I'm so sorry that we've been unable to work any shows this summer into our schedule. But when one of us flies internationally, and the other works in hospitality, it looks like the best we can do is quarterfinals at the theatre. But, we will be there for sure. And I'm sure we'll enjoy ourselves.

Garry in Vegas

Edited July 15, 2008 by CrunchyTenor

[CrunchyTenor]

The G bugle is gone, mostly due to cost.

Would you please clarify this statement? Are you talking cost to purchase? Cost to maintain?

When any key brass passed (and it was obvious that it would be Bb/F, and not Db or something weird), several people did an analysis of the pricing of G brass and Bb/F brass from Dynasty and Kanstul, and compared that to Yamaha as well.

Purchasing a set of 70 G brass worked out to be about $20-40K less. What sold the idea to DCI was the resale concept. Most of the corps want to sell complete sets, some break them up.

But in a case of the district where I work, all purchases go to bid. I doubt SCV, BD, Cadets, Blue Stars or any other corps with brass for sale is on the Clark County School District bid list. I don't know how many school districts have DCI corps on their bid lists. My gut feeling is not too many.

Garry in Vegas

[Martybucs]

Interesting debate. Most of this we have debated before.

But this statement popped out at me. So, Mike, I have to ask again, what makes you state that people are wrong just because they have a differing point of view? Who's to say that YOU'RE not wrong? You and I actually agree on a lot of things, and we differ on a few. But to state that someone is wrong is just...well....wrong.

Unless it's something static, like instrument construction specifications, or something equally finite, there's a lot of latitude on how people perceive things, including drum corps in it's former, current and future state.

Anyway, nice discussion. And mostly civil, too.

I'll give my opinion. Some of you have read it before, so bear with me.

I have no problem with valved brass. 2V was cool, but 3V makes more sense.

I prefer G brass, but have come to accept Bb/F brass.

Grounded pits make sense, especially to anyone who carried a keyboard.

Battery percussion technology rocks, and tenor and bass lines are over the moon compared to 1980.

Current drill design is amazing.

The talent level is phenominal.

I heard a little narration that worked. Because there was just a little.

BUT...

I had no problem hearing the pit, even with G brass, which sounded louder to me.

Snare drums had more guts (no pun intended) with mylar heads.

Drill design rocks, but execution is lacking. Even during finals week. Where do demand and execution meet to provide the best of both? IMO, design has passed the ability to execute.

Squad marching may have been simpler in design, but don't think for a minute it was any easier, especially in a tick-based judging system.

Spread todays talent over more corps and see how different the corps sound. Talent is more concentrated. Open class corps from 1980 would sound better if there were only 20 to choose from, too.

Indoor guard belongs indoor.

Too much narration=less big brass and percussion moments. Sell me the concept with music and visual. If you have to tell me what it is, it's a bad idea.

It's a different world. Yes, I appreciate all eras. But if I had to draw the line anywhere, it has to be when drum corps stopped being 100% acoustic. Sorry, but actually playing 4-mallet technique outshines someone pushing a key to create an effect. Or, figuring out how to produce the effect without having to resort to electronics requires more creativity than pushing a key on a keyboard. (Standard reference: SCV's helicopters in 1991)

I'm so sorry that we've been unable to work any shows this summer into our schedule. But when one of us flies internationally, and the other works in hospitality, it looks like the best we can do is quarterfinals at the theatre. But, we will be there for sure. And I'm sure we'll enjoy ourselves.

Garry in Vegas

I, particularly, agree with this post.

[MikeD]

Interesting debate. Most of this we have debated before.

But this statement popped out at me. So, Mike, I have to ask again, what makes you state that people are wrong just because they have a differing point of view? Who's to say that YOU'RE not wrong? You and I actually agree on a lot of things, and we differ on a few. But to state that someone is wrong is just...well....wrong.

Marty and I have gone back and forth on this many times...as you and I have. I put the and there for a reason. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Marty "got it" when he replied

...as are you. I see you're taking advantage of that right in this thread.

I'll give my opinion. Some of you have read it before, so bear with me.

I have no problem with valved brass. 2V was cool, but 3V makes more sense.

I prefer G brass, but have come to accept Bb/F brass.

Grounded pits make sense, especially to anyone who carried a keyboard.

Battery percussion technology rocks, and tenor and bass lines are over the moon compared to 1980.

Current drill design is amazing.

The talent level is phenominal.

I heard a little narration that worked. Because there was just a little.

BUT...

I had no problem hearing the pit, even with G brass, which sounded louder to me.

Snare drums had more guts (no pun intended) with mylar heads.

Drill design rocks, but execution is lacking. Even during finals week. Where do demand and execution meet to provide the best of both? IMO, design has passed the ability to execute.

Squad marching may have been simpler in design, but don't think for a minute it was any easier, especially in a tick-based judging system.

Spread todays talent over more corps and see how different the corps sound. Talent is more concentrated. Open class corps from 1980 would sound better if there were only 20 to choose from, too.

Indoor guard belongs indoor.

Too much narration=less big brass and percussion moments. Sell me the concept with music and visual. If you have to tell me what it is, it's a bad idea.

There is no "one way" to create a show. IMO your last statement is just not a 'given'. Some shows are designed to use a narrative; it's not a crutch. Cadets 71 and Regiment passed out the earlier equivalent with their librettos. The shows were designed to use a narrative. Cadets last year as well...the narration was integral to the show concept, not a crutch.

IMO squad-based marching was easier than that of today, even with ticks.

IMO amps have improved the pit for the reasons posted over time. I particularly like the miccing of the vibes and marimba, sound-wise, and the ability to use 'softer' percussion equipment. Plus, the performance styles and mallet selection using mics makes for a better performance sound, again, IMO.

It's a different world. Yes, I appreciate all eras. But if I had to draw the line anywhere, it has to be when drum corps stopped being 100% acoustic. Sorry, but actually playing 4-mallet technique outshines someone pushing a key to create an effect. Or, figuring out how to produce the effect without having to resort to electronics requires more creativity than pushing a key on a keyboard. (Standard reference: SCV's helicopters in 1991)

The key to the above is this...."But if I had to draw the line anywhere...". WHY draw a line? It's all good, as it has been for me since 1964, my first exposure to drum corps. Drawing a line is creating a artificial barrier for no reason, IMO.

I'm so sorry that we've been unable to work any shows this summer into our schedule. But when one of us flies internationally, and the other works in hospitality, it looks like the best we can do is quarterfinals at the theatre. But, we will be there for sure.

My first won't be until either West Chester or Allentown. I wanted to attend Clifton, but I had a community band gig that night, a pre-fireworks concert in a park.

And I'm sure we'll enjoy ourselves.

Isn't that the most important part?