What Happens if the Cadets win?

[silvertrombone]

Yeah, yeah--we all read Grout. Call me boring, but I've always enjoyed the truly beautiful stuff. Some would call this boring. Count M.'s Bach, Beethoven and Mozart in that category I guess.

There's some phenomenally brilliant writing in Mozart's Requiem that we still have yet to see on the DC field.

Lots of Beethoven that would rate the same.

And Bach's Brandenburg Concertos as well.

Now, maybe these works don't fit into the current philosophy of the DCI activity with the emphasis on "storytelling," GE and visual stuff. Yeah, drum corps isn't about the "drums" and "bugles" anymore. Sometimes I think that's the problem. Many of you would agree with that assertion.

Now do I like Machine and Faust? Sure. Kind of cool seeing a Barber & Bartok or Zone to challenge us occassionally? Yeah--just not every...single...show!!

Art took a wacky turn in the 20th Century and suddenly it became all about what the artist wanted it to be about...which more times than not meant sex. Not something that, many of us feel, should be a publicly displayed thing. Intimacy is intimacy b/c it is meant to be intimant. Period. Disagree with me if you like.

20th Century "art" music tended to be more about experimentation with new sounds...be that the "futurism" of machine guns or the harmonic dissonances now common. You know what one of my favorite 20th Century symphonies is? Prokofiev's Classical Symphony (#2 I believe?).

I'm just an order and form kind of guy. I like improvisation as well, but view it as more an extension of order. Contemporary thought, I guess, is the reverse. But that makes no more sense to me than order evolving in a godless universe. Just me.

But since you can start in the Baroque and walk forward through history and see the natural progression of art and art music going from glorifying God to the contemporary, which is more anti-God and pro-sex, and I think that supports my personal arguments.

What happens if Cadets win? Then everyone starts doing silly shows. Mic's and electronics become commonplace. And real music doesn't win. But Phantom has "never" won. Nothing new there.

[bawker]

Mozart had little acceptance during his life – yet he is considered our most revered composer. Bach was unknown throughout most of Europe, yet he is considered our Baroque giant; Beethoven couldn’t even hear his own music yet he was a master genius; Wagner wrote a 16 hour opera – how’s that for pushing the envelope? Stravinsky’s music started a riot during a performance – how has he changed history? Have you heard Stravinsky’s serialistic music? Is it less valid than Petroushka or Firebird?

Does Piccasso have a place in history? How about Klee, Monet, Chagall, Cezanne, Dali, Warhol, Pollack, Ernst et. al.? Do we dismiss them just because they created art that may have created discomfort? What about our contemporary poets and writers?

Many show themes are created from concepts of chaos, violence, sex and conflict resolution. Where would drum corps be without ‘Spartacus’, ‘West Side Story’ ‘007’ and ‘The Godfather’?

I think that many people dislike the Cadets (especially this year) because their show concepts make them feel uncomfortable – God forbid that may happen at a drum corps show. Don’t want to talk about cancer, death, unhappiness, trying to find yourself – maybe because we all struggle with those same issues and we don’t want to be reminded of our own worries and weaknesses.

All art needs people to push the envelope – for better or for worse. Cadets have been doing that for thirty years.

And what if the Cadets win? Will we have a riot like at the Paris Ballet during the performance of “The Rite of Spring”? It is just my humble opinion that most remarkable and memorable moments in history are not created during moments of mediocrity but rather when people are feeling discomfort. So love them or hate them, the bottom line is that I am proud of those kids – they do not accept mediocrity, they are pushing the envelope and doing it artistically.

Here it is again: the meme that we're seeing something fundamentally paradigm shifting from the Cadets, and that it belongs in the realm of other misunderstood masterpieces.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we've seen this every year since 2006 . . .the fact that since the judges aren't giving out 99.15's and the crowd doesn't "get it", that there's just too much for us poor little lizard-brain "I LIKE TEH LOUD" fans to absorb.

If we were in that realm, I think we'd see more analysis that, indeed, the bar had been raised . . .more people expressing their opinions on what they seen and supposedly couldn't process, and so on.

What we do have is something most of us familiar with the marching arts have seen before: a show that's carried by a narrative theme. It's no different than a lot of other shows that have come along in Bands of America's circuit, or elsewhere. The gravitas of the issues cancer raise will never be covered in eleven and a half minutes by relating one persons story as it stands now.

Framing the device in a faux NPR scheme does little to move the chains of design further . . . it only serves as a familiar, comfortable environment that's the furthest thing from creating artistic history. Drum corps remains an art form that borrows from other, more well-known places in culture (excepting some original music shows over the past two decades). There is no artistic revolution in rehashing or riffing on something else, no matter how well you do it.

Star of Indiana 1993 was, indeed, an exploration of human emotion . . .one that encompassed anger, jealousy and several other emotions . . difference being from the story-narrative of now, though . . is one of letting the music and visual do that talking, rather than beating people over the head. While the music was borrowed from Barber and Bartok, the emotional starkness of the uniforms and visual book was not. The emotions you feel from that show aren't ones borne of a narrative cueing device.

Drum corps excels in presenting a big picture of emotions and themes. It does not translate well when it tries to focus on the singular.

Sarah Jones story, if told across the radio waves, might be a powerful elixir . . .because the radio art form (This American Life in particular) makes you consider these stories on their own. No musical interludes, no visual ones. Just the story of a life to consider. . .as you drive down a road, jog down a street, or sit and listen.

See a pattern? Those are all things you do, for the most part, alone. There's a dichotomy between putting Sarah Jones on the field behind music, flags and everything else. It rings hollow, for the emotional weight that George and company are trying to put upon it is lost . . and is only processed on a singular, direct level.

Breast cancer, happiness, love . . .all of these are important things. People (contrary to what the above post seems to say) are more than smart enough to sense that . . .but as there is only a chance to put these out as a framing layer behind music and motion, people also sense the fact that it's being presented in order to try to press certain emotional, theatrical or storytelling buttons.

As to changing the artisitic process within drum corps:

-maybe the Cadets could release a free, extended track with Sarah's conversations about her life prior to the show for those that wanted to drink in the story in its own right.

-perhaps the Cadets pre-show should jump immediately into Sarah's story, without any other competition, in order to try to give it some weight and depth, perhaps even going so far as making her story a narrative that, at every show, is added to. . .so the journey at the end of the season is different than the one at the beginning.

-maybe dropping the NPR pretense totally, and construction of the narrative again . . .from a larger emotional point. No more Sarah Jones, but instead look outside of one person and focus on the larger, big picture of the concept of happiness. No more "I", but more "our". Make that big picture connect with the big visuals and horn book.

All of these look away from the tired, already-done concepts in Bands of America and elsewhere towards making narrative storytelling something more than it is now, and towards a great cohesiveness between storycraft and music/motion.

The Cadets haven't done it yet. They may not be the ones who do end up fundamentally changing things with narration, as electronics are on the horizon, and will offer another emotional crutch for the design staff . . .so we move away from anyone even trying to expand beyond what was cool at BOA or WGI last year.

I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case. . . but, IMO, from about five years of usage so far, the easy way out is what everyone seems to prefer. I don't know why, honestly. Every year I see people post on DCP and elsewhere who have ideas that would truly be experimental in nature to try: shows based on math, shows that change every night, shows that are based on off-the-wall concepts no one has ever tried. . . there's so much that we can do, but so little we actually see done in this regard.

True risk involves a real threat of failure.

Are the Cadets ready for that? Is anyone?

2009 is your move, folks . . .

[chaddyt]

The Cadets winning will be the perfect ending for me. A cheesy, narrated show wins the last year that I watch, removing any doubts I have about giving up something that I loved... drum corps. I won't watch a show with non-acoustical instruments so this year is my last hurrah, so to speak. I will never forgive Hopkins, The Cadets, and all the others that went along with destroying what I loved most about drum corps...

... And the winner for Best Supporting Post in a Dramatic Role goes to....

[BigSnareline]

The Cadets winning will be the perfect ending for me. A cheesy, narrated show wins the last year that I watch, removing any doubts I have about giving up something that I loved... drum corps. I won't watch a show with non-acoustical instruments so this year is my last hurrah, so to speak. I will never forgive Hopkins, The Cadets, and all the others that went along with destroying what I loved most about drum corps...

You're not alone Capt - not even close. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up watching drum corps entirely but I know I'm going to cringe the first time I hear an electric keyboard played in the pit.

[gellio]

Mozart had little acceptance during his life – yet he is considered our most revered composer. Bach was unknown throughout most of Europe, yet he is considered our Baroque giant; Beethoven couldn’t even hear his own music yet he was a master genius; Wagner wrote a 16 hour opera – how’s that for pushing the envelope? Stravinsky’s music started a riot during a performance – how has he changed history? Have you heard Stravinsky’s serialistic music? Is it less valid than Petroushka or Firebird?

Yeah, I love these stories. Of topic, I know. Mozart had little acceptance in Vienna. In Prague he was a sensation. It's funny visiting Vienna today (one of my favorite cities) because Mozart is every where. I think Wagner actually intended to write a 13:30 to 14:30 opera (The Ring). I once had a recording that was over 17 hours and it was ridiculously slow. Still, The Ring is awesome and one of my favorites. To get on topic - yes the Cadets are less valid than any of these great artists....all drum corps are <- I said that to myself.

[jplattSCV]

Who's counting?

When I watched the Cadets show a few days ago, the narration simply felt like a ham handed guide for the audience. Sort of like an applause sign. Personally, I'd like to see a full fledged Velvet Knights style parody of it complete with laugh track. I honestly think that a less melodramatic version of narration would soften a lot of people's criticism of it. I can't say that I like the narration but I don't fault Cadets at all for trying something so different. Its in their nature. But, it still feels clumsy and out of place to me and makes the music feel like incidental music in a play as opposed to lyrics in a musical or opera. It is an overlay rather than an equal component.

Maybe the next level of prop could be giant card board arrows that they can hold up and point to focus the audience throughout the show. look over here. Wait, now look over here. uh oh! 2 arrows at the same time! groundbreaking!

[Fan of the Arts]

And what if the Cadets win? Will we have a riot like at the Paris Ballet during the performance of “The Rite of Spring”? It is just my humble opinion that most remarkable and memorable moments in history are not created during moments of mediocrity but rather when people are feeling discomfort. So love them or hate them, the bottom line is that I am proud of those kids – they do not accept mediocrity, they are pushing the envelope and doing it artistically.

I for one will be very proud of the kids, the staff, and George. For those who will have a difficult time with that "what if", I will continue to pray for them :)

Irving

Fan of the Arts

[DrumCorpsFan27]

No - You missed the point - I would never compare them to the masters but rather how society perceived their work and the difficulties that they faced as artists.

That's a comparison, ins't it? The perception of The Cadets productions and the perceptions of those masters work?

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Here it is again: the meme that we're seeing something fundamentally paradigm shifting from the Cadets, and that it belongs in the realm of other misunderstood masterpieces.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we've seen this every year since 2006 . . .the fact that since the judges aren't giving out 99.15's and the crowd doesn't "get it", that there's just too much for us poor little lizard-brain "I LIKE TEH LOUD" fans to absorb.

If we were in that realm, I think we'd see more analysis that, indeed, the bar had been raised . . .more people expressing their opinions on what they seen and supposedly couldn't process, and so on.

What we do have is something most of us familiar with the marching arts have seen before: a show that's carried by a narrative theme. It's no different than a lot of other shows that have come along in Bands of America's circuit, or elsewhere. The gravitas of the issues cancer raise will never be covered in eleven and a half minutes by relating one persons story as it stands now.

Framing the device in a faux NPR scheme does little to move the chains of design further . . . it only serves as a familiar, comfortable environment that's the furthest thing from creating artistic history. Drum corps remains an art form that borrows from other, more well-known places in culture (excepting some original music shows over the past two decades). There is no artistic revolution in rehashing or riffing on something else, no matter how well you do it.

Star of Indiana 1993 was, indeed, an exploration of human emotion . . .one that encompassed anger, jealousy and several other emotions . . difference being from the story-narrative of now, though . . is one of letting the music and visual do that talking, rather than beating people over the head. While the music was borrowed from Barber and Bartok, the emotional starkness of the uniforms and visual book was not. The emotions you feel from that show aren't ones borne of a narrative cueing device.

Drum corps excels in presenting a big picture of emotions and themes. It does not translate well when it tries to focus on the singular.

Sarah Jones story, if told across the radio waves, might be a powerful elixir . . .because the radio art form (This American Life in particular) makes you consider these stories on their own. No musical interludes, no visual ones. Just the story of a life to consider. . .as you drive down a road, jog down a street, or sit and listen.

See a pattern? Those are all things you do, for the most part, alone. There's a dichotomy between putting Sarah Jones on the field behind music, flags and everything else. It rings hollow, for the emotional weight that George and company are trying to put upon it is lost . . and is only processed on a singular, direct level.

Breast cancer, happiness, love . . .all of these are important things. People (contrary to what the above post seems to say) are more than smart enough to sense that . . .but as there is only a chance to put these out as a framing layer behind music and motion, people also sense the fact that it's being presented in order to try to press certain emotional, theatrical or storytelling buttons.

As to changing the artisitic process within drum corps:

-maybe the Cadets could release a free, extended track with Sarah's conversations about her life prior to the show for those that wanted to drink in the story in its own right.

-perhaps the Cadets pre-show should jump immediately into Sarah's story, without any other competition, in order to try to give it some weight and depth, perhaps even going so far as making her story a narrative that, at every show, is added to. . .so the journey at the end of the season is different than the one at the beginning.

-maybe dropping the NPR pretense totally, and construction of the narrative again . . .from a larger emotional point. No more Sarah Jones, but instead look outside of one person and focus on the larger, big picture of the concept of happiness. No more "I", but more "our". Make that big picture connect with the big visuals and horn book.

All of these look away from the tired, already-done concepts in Bands of America and elsewhere towards making narrative storytelling something more than it is now, and towards a great cohesiveness between storycraft and music/motion.

The Cadets haven't done it yet. They may not be the ones who do end up fundamentally changing things with narration, as electronics are on the horizon, and will offer another emotional crutch for the design staff . . .so we move away from anyone even trying to expand beyond what was cool at BOA or WGI last year.

I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case. . . but, IMO, from about five years of usage so far, the easy way out is what everyone seems to prefer. I don't know why, honestly. Every year I see people post on DCP and elsewhere who have ideas that would truly be experimental in nature to try: shows based on math, shows that change every night, shows that are based on off-the-wall concepts no one has ever tried. . . there's so much that we can do, but so little we actually see done in this regard.

True risk involves a real threat of failure.

Are the Cadets ready for that? Is anyone?

2009 is your move, folks . . .

Post of the decade!

[Fan of the Arts]

True risk involves a real threat of failure.

Are the Cadets ready for that? Is anyone?

2009 is your move, folks . . .

I believe the Cadets understand that risk -- the threads we read on the Cadets support that theory. So I would have to say they are ready for failure if that is where the path takes them. Many people look at their 5th place finish a couple of years ago as a failure. 'I believe' they had one of the most beautiful ballads played that year.

Irving

Fan of the Arts