PCSoprano9702 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Comparing scores between shows isn't dumb. It is precisely why there is scoring; to measure improvement. It isn't perfect. But not all imperfect things are dumb. Bad attitude. Also, And BD should stop playing jazz? Didn't this already happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Pioneer is better every day. I'll give you a few reasons why:1. Cascades 2. Capital Regiment 3. Southwind 4. Magic of Orlando Pioneer is thriving in this climate. There's a huge difference between surviving and thriving. I can respect Pioneer for staying World Class and maintaining their unique philosophy and business model. Yet I've been reading the exact same comments on their low placements and lack of member retention since 2003 (I think the last corps they beat in their division was KK in 05). If they want to actually "thrive" as a World Class corps (which is becoming a harder thing to do every year), they need to make some fundamental changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps fan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) as someone who has publicly bashed Pioneer (well at least Blenksi) on here, I am shocked to see the score hasn't moved much since Cedarburg...the show is designed in a way that doesn't seem like the normal Pioneer show and their placement may not be in question...the numbers sure are. even in the subcaptions...there are some decent sections here and they do deserve to be closer to other corps in some captions. again this is another reason (among many) why i have to wonder aloud about the current judging system and perhaps some of the judges (at least one of which i'm surprised to see back after the during-season investigation last year) Edited July 16, 2008 by corps fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Shame on the original poster... How was the OP's corps different or better? This makes me sad. Go Pio! Better every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copyright Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Great. This has turned into another Pioneer programming thread. If I had a dime for every time this topic came up - i'd be a rich man. All corps should look to DCP before making thier musical and design decisions... not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RsD Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Great. This has turned into another Pioneer programming thread. If I had a dime for every time this topic came up - i'd be a rich man.All corps should look to DCP before making thier musical and design decisions... not. Well, the OP was talking about scores. But that got everyones' undies in a knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumpetJ Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Shame on the original poster...How was the OP's corps different or better? This makes me sad. Go Pio! Better every day! He didn't single out a corps. He didn't bash anyone. He presented a simple question and people are ripping him for it. Honestly, what is so offensive about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 So, the audience is never supposed to hear anything they've never heard before, no matter how good it may be?I think you can detect the fatal problem here... Really, now. didn't say that,............I said it may not be the best thing for them,.............no fatal problem, I like tunes, and don't need to be educated on stuff I really have no taste for,.................Really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_marie15 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 All I know is that the students at Pioneer do work very, very hard, everyday. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Pioneer just went through an "Everydays Part 2" for about the past week. They performed in Louisville, KY on July 7th and received a 65.050 and then in Lincoln, NE on July 14th and received a 63.850. Between those two shows they rehearsed. Every day. I'm not in touch with the staff this year, so I'm not sure if they made changes to the show in that week but...it must be frustrating for them to do nothing but rehearse for a full week and come back out almost 1.5 points lower in the scores. Do you think a week of rehearsal actually made them worse? I would bet my life that it did not. Yet that is exactly what the scores seem to be telling these kids. That's the thing about Pioneer, not one of their members is going to give up, stop trying, etc. just because the scores don't match the hard work they know they did. That is why it's not about the scores for the members of Pioneer. They are being competitive, but they are competing against themselves, and in that competition, scores play a negligible role. If you want the kids to know YOU KNOW they're working hard, then CHEER for them! If Pioneer got the same response from the crowd as the other corps did, do you know what a difference that would make to them? Don't they work just as hard as the other corps? Don't they DESERVE the same response?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Easy now. I don't believe OP's intent was to bring anyone down. Notice how he said it was based on the scores, not the actual performance or effort from the marchers that dropped in quality. Perhaps the judges are getting tougher as mentioned earlier in this thread. Scores fluctuate (sp?), that's gonna happen. You're right, I've calmed down. However, I don't think I'm too far off on what the OP was implying. He suggested that they were engaging in "false advertisement," which I feel was out of line. They are not "advertising" anything that they don't have control over... such as a judge's opinion... but more so advertising that they subscribe to a philosophy of personal and collective self improvement. I think most people get that, but IMO, the OP took a cheap shot at a group that is VERY undeserving of such commentary. Also, I think it's much different when Cadets or BD take a ripping... they are dominant organizations that have every benefit of this activity to support them, even when a few outspoken people don't. Pioneer has simply their own work ethic, integrity, and fundamental purpose for existence to keep them going in an activity that has clearly moved away from their (Pioneer's) core values for youth development. By the way, I likewise don't think they should be awarded "pity points" either, as another thread has suggested. They don't need them, they're strong kids, they just want a fair and realistic evaluation, not that they have not received that, it's just that we can all understand how it's not likely that that's what has been happening... it's not logical, unless they've been laying some real eggs out there... which I doubt they have been. Correction... I should mention that they do also have the support of fans that understand what they are all about. Those that don't get it can always just sit and enjoy what they have to offer, show up late to the show, since Pio will likely go on close to first, or get a hotdog. Why take cheap shots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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