Perry S Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I think BD's show is more than a couple of notches behind Phantom's musically. Why should visual count more than music? Aren't there just as many points in music as there are in visual. I am tired of hearing how a corps should not win because they do not have the best visual program. It is time that a corps with the best music had a chance at the title! AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueR36 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 because the music is the most important portion of the show...Have a show with the top 12 corps...and announce ahead of time that it's a standstill concert...droves of people will still show up... Have a show with the top 12 corps...and announce ahead of time that no music will be played...just marching drill and color guard...some will show up, but not near as many... Music is what drives the drum corps genre... I agree absolutely 100 percent ... more if mathematics would allow it. I said to my wife, a peripheral fan b/c of me, that Phantom took first in GE Music, Ensemble Music, Brass and Drums, and said What place to you think they took -- and she jokingly said "Umm, third!!" She couldn't believe she was right!!! This IS "Drum & Bugle Corps" -- right?? You win drums and you win bugles, but you take third? Maybe we've gone TOO far with giving visual its place in the activity, just as we've given design and "how well the professional designer do vs. how well the performers do" too much credit in the scoring, thus giving us the same winners almost every year. Just like last year when my corps, the Bluecoats, took 4th in brass (1st in Quarters and all the Regionals leading up to Finals Week before inexplicably falling to 4th in Semi's and Finals, but that's another story) ... anyway, 4th in "bugles" and 2nd in "drums" but that's only good enough for 7th overall. People will gather "in the lots" to hear drum and brass warm-ups, but does anyone really watch "basics blocks" at the stadiums????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmcolorguard Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Then why do you go WATCH the corps in the stadium.....if it was just about music, then just buy the c.d.'s It is more music based by the way, there are 5 music judges. versus 4 visual judges.....if you do well in music, then by simple math that helps out your score the most.....I am assuming drum corps was made to get to go WATCH corps in a different setting, as opposed to someone watching at a normal concert. The visual side of the activity is what a lot of people are trying to figure out, musicians come from everywhere, where are they getting these visual people and their ideas? I agree absolutely 100 percent ... more if mathematics would allow it.I said to my wife, a peripheral fan b/c of me, that Phantom took first in GE Music, Ensemble Music, Brass and Drums, and said What place to you think they took -- and she jokingly said "Umm, third!!" She couldn't believe she was right!!! This IS "Drum & Bugle Corps" -- right?? You win drums and you win bugles, but you take third? Maybe we've gone TOO far with giving visual its place in the activity, just as we've given design and "how well the professional designer do vs. how well the performers do" too much credit in the scoring, thus giving us the same winners almost every year. Just like last year when my corps, the Bluecoats, took 4th in brass (1st in Quarters and all the Regionals leading up to Finals Week before inexplicably falling to 4th in Semi's and Finals, but that's another story) ... anyway, 4th in "bugles" and 2nd in "drums" but that's only good enough for 7th overall. People will gather "in the lots" to hear drum and brass warm-ups, but does anyone really watch "basics blocks" at the stadiums????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueR36 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Then why do you go WATCH the corps in the stadium.....if it was just about music, then just buy the c.d.'sIt is more music based by the way, there are 5 music judges. versus 4 visual judges.....if you do well in music, then by simple math that helps out your score the most.....I am assuming drum corps was made to get to go WATCH corps in a different setting, as opposed to someone watching at a normal concert. The visual side of the activity is what a lot of people are trying to figure out, musicians come from everywhere, where are they getting these visual people and their ideas? I've been teaching marching (not music) at different HS bands for about 16 years, so I understand and appreciate the visual side as much as anyone ... and I truly enjoy the visual programs. I wasn't saying we should get rid of the visual parts, just saying that maybe music should be weighted a little stronger b/c this is a mostly music-based activity. (I don't have the answer on "how" to do it, I'm just sayin' ...) As for the "5 vs. 4" judges, that's just when there's an extra judge to give a better read on the percussion. If anything, because the scores are equal in the end, the visual judges seemingly have a greater effect on the final score b/c there numbers aren't watered down as much. It just seems "funny" to me that you can win "drums and bugles" but not win the "drum and bugle corps" competition. PS -- I buy the CDs and the DVDs, and I listen far more than I watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnareline Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 more likeBD Cavaliers Cadets Regiment Crown Bluecoats Vanguard BK Oh really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmcolorguard Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 A couple things: The color guard judges score does not count 100%.......I have noticed a couple conversations about this on DCP and wondered why nobody was telling people that.....so as far as weight...that is 4 visual judges, one not counting 100%, so 3 1/2? You can say the same thing for the visually strong corps, Crown has only been successful the past few years, because of the visual side? They were not doing as well in brass and percussion back then..........one could argue almost the same for Cavaliers And this one I might be wrong about, because it is a new concept, but the 2nd percussion judge is at every show that "matters"....so 5 music scores I understand your point, I think the opposite extreme, music we know and understand, and yes when a corps plays well that is great........but all these new visual ideas are what I think are the future of the activity...........I pretty sure I am correct when I say that most fans do not want new music, we all like the recognizable, but the new visual stuff is what is cool...... I've been teaching marching (not music) at different HS bands for about 16 years, so I understand and appreciate the visual side as much as anyone ... and I truly enjoy the visual programs. I wasn't saying we should get rid of the visual parts, just saying that maybe music should be weighted a little stronger b/c this is a mostly music-based activity. (I don't have the answer on "how" to do it, I'm just sayin' ...) As for the "5 vs. 4" judges, that's just when there's an extra judge to give a better read on the percussion. If anything, because the scores are equal in the end, the visual judges seemingly have a greater effect on the final score b/c there numbers aren't watered down as much. It just seems "funny" to me that you can win "drums and bugles" but not win the "drum and bugle corps" competition. PS -- I buy the CDs and the DVDs, and I listen far more than I watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsdude03 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Just now noticing? Spartacus looked like a championship show the first time I saw it on July 2nd. err / I saw the potential early on to... it's just now they are making a "dark horse" type move - that wasn't happening back in July 2nd they need to win brass and percussion IMO to win championships - or at least be within .2 in brass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jczer75 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 A couple things:The color guard judges score does not count 100%.......I have noticed a couple conversations about this on DCP and wondered why nobody was telling people that.....so as far as weight...that is 4 visual judges, one not counting 100%, so 3 1/2? You can say the same thing for the visually strong corps, Crown has only been successful the past few years, because of the visual side? They were not doing as well in brass and percussion back then..........one could argue almost the same for Cavaliers And this one I might be wrong about, because it is a new concept, but the 2nd percussion judge is at every show that "matters"....so 5 music scores I understand your point, I think the opposite extreme, music we know and understand, and yes when a corps plays well that is great........but all these new visual ideas are what I think are the future of the activity...........I pretty sure I am correct when I say that most fans do not want new music, we all like the recognizable, but the new visual stuff is what is cool...... The only 2 scores that count 100% are GE Music and GE Visual. Colorguard counts as much as brass, percussion, and the ensemble captions. Putting your horn down and sprinting across the field out of time is the future of the activity? I do not see how this is innovation. My high school students do this everytime I say, "take it back to set 1" and I have never thought, "wow, that is so innovative!" Also, if everyone wants to hear music that is recognizable, then why are these "visual" corps playing the most unfamiliar music? I love the Cavaliers drill, every year. I think the Cavaliers and Blue Devils march very well and have outstanding colorguards, year in and year out. I think that Phantom Regiment's brass and percussion are head and shoulders above both of these corps. Their visual design might not be as cutting edge, but I think the visual judges' spreads do too much damage. For example, I do not think that Phantom's visual performance (5th place) should have been half a point below Cadets (4th place). I am not arguing placements in visual, but the spreads are too wide between some of the placements in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc5682 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I've been teaching marching (not music) at different HS bands for about 16 years, so I understand and appreciate the visual side as much as anyone ... and I truly enjoy the visual programs. I wasn't saying we should get rid of the visual parts, just saying that maybe music should be weighted a little stronger b/c this is a mostly music-based activity. (I don't have the answer on "how" to do it, I'm just sayin' ...) As for the "5 vs. 4" judges, that's just when there's an extra judge to give a better read on the percussion. If anything, because the scores are equal in the end, the visual judges seemingly have a greater effect on the final score b/c there numbers aren't watered down as much. It just seems "funny" to me that you can win "drums and bugles" but not win the "drum and bugle corps" competition. PS -- I buy the CDs and the DVDs, and I listen far more than I watch. I guess the colorguard is pointless right? Visual and music are equally important. Why do you think you do basic blocks in the heat for hours on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Oh really? haha yeah.. well I took a shot! and I missed the boat. Either way, it was entertaining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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