Colts 08 ... Better than Madison?

[notelvis]

Colts were awesome this year - no doubt about it. Crossmen were better - Madison was better than both - That's just how it was.

And these corps had three of my six favorite shows this year. All three were great but the rules are what they are. Let 14 or 15 corps into finals and then the whole point of making finals gets watered down.

[Cop]

Madison had good drill very very poor guard.

Madison beat Crossmen in guard head to head Thursday at Quarters

Madison was also at a higher guard score the week into finals

And if you think the scores on Friday were on trac..... WRONG~~

Edited August 12, 2008 by Cop

[84skyrydr]

When I first saw the DM bow move early in the season, I wondered about it. I also saw lots comments about it

in these forums. After the show in K-zoo I mentioned this to my son and he said they did it to give the other DM

time to move from backfield to the front.

But then that doesn't fit everybodys need to believe that it was an intentional begging for a standing O. Begging or not, it was earned. As far as another corps getting a standing O as they entered the field, that has been happening since 1972. It is about who they are, not how they are. Last year, I gave them a standing O as they walked on and they didn't make finals then. Then again, I give everybody a standing O before and after EVERY show. Love them all. It is soooooo much easier. It really makes placements pretty easy to take.

[84skyrydr]

I can't believe more folks can't spot the obvious troll.

First post. Never posts again in the thread

Contrajedi plays contra?, what did you expect? Dialogue?

Edited August 12, 2008 by 84skyrydr

[Jared_mello]

confused about posting intent.....comments temporarily withdrawn.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Jared_mello

[TealEuph7]

Scouts ended up being better than I thought. I saw the for the first time this year at Big, Loud, and Live and they were pretty good. Colts were good but Scouts just had what it took to take 12th although Crossmen were right there too.

[byline]

As opposed to a corps who got a stand ovation as it was taking the field...

But yes, their show was good. So was Crossmen's and Madison's. I don't see how a corps in 14th could jump BOTH Crossmen and Madison after getting beat by both for the entire second half of the season.

I mean, I didn't even expect Madison to jump Crossmen, let alone the Cots.

Given the massive improvement Madison made in the last three weeks of the season, I can believe it. I think a lot of folks prematurely wrote Madison off because of how shaky their early to mid-season was, but in looking at their drill and musical book, I think they had the most demanding program of the three corps we're discussing. And while the guard was their weak link through much of the season, they made some incredible strides late in the game that made them, IMO, quite impressive. When I saw them in Buffalo, I was worried based on what I'd previously read, then pleasantly surprised at how good they were. So I think the corps basically took care of the naysayers by cleaning up what was, to me, one of the most memorable programs on the field this summer.

[drumaw]

Hi luvinmydummin,

Welcome to posting on DCP. This is definitely a place where if you ask for opinions, you will get them. Many posters have given you really good, non-offensive answers to your questions. As several have mentioned, strong associations with a group make it extremely difficult to be 100% subjective, certainly if you are fairly new or young to the activity.

I too preferred Madison over Colts & Crossmen. This changed over the summer. Early on I thought Colts to be demonstrating the most maturity and polish in their performances. There were some show issues that I feared would hurt them in Bloomington. Usually, more mature groups handle change the best. I thought changes would be made that would elevate the "what" and Colts would be in finals again with a fun, accessible show. The show changes to me made no difference or little difference. This doesn't mean the staff made uninformed or under-developed choices necessarily. I am sure they are very talented and well-intended. Phantom, BD, and Cavies staff members would tell you that they are too often get too close to their groups, or the activities current taste to know with 100% certainty that their changes are all going to work as intended. As with anything, experience in these areas typically up the success factor.

MANY years in DCI year past, you would have made finals. Too many great groups, and several that would have done anything to be in, including Colts.

So, I really liked Colts. VERY solid show. Lots of fun and recognizable music. The concept was easy to follow. Very well done. Preferred them emotionally to several finalists. Artistically, not as much. Don't look for any specific thing or person for 100% fault of what didn't happen; it isn't that easy and such can mess with your view of your experience. Though my perspective will be different than others, you may notice a trend of repeated dislikes.

Here is what I thought could have been improved:

The original opening was one of my favorite parts of the show, the changed version was too under-developed.

Opening guard soloist was conceptually too campy and very old school for me. Old school influence in a NEW way is great. This just seemed silly to me.

Following guard soloists, same reaction. Not the performers, just the concept. Reminded me of 1980s Dutch Boy years with big hair and Vegas.

Length of standing and playing hurt flow and forward direction of the show.

Swing got better by the brass, but still didn't sell. It is hard, but great when it works. Its is why corps do little to none of it anymore.

Though symmetrical drill is great and can be very effective, there seemed to be too much in this particular show, especially with how the guard was staged.

Not enough surprises. To much predictability.

Guard uni was also too old school and the guard guys should have worn something else.

Perc. book and horn book didn't aways seem to gel.

What I would not have changed:

Impacts were very solid and almost always appropriately supported by the guard.

Music selections were great.

Show theme was well chosen and easy to follow.

Forms and intervals were pretty clean.

Much of the drill was very well constructed from an engineering stand point, with some good GE moments.

Communication and showmanship were strong compared to your surrounding groups.

Drum major was very good.

Ballad was very musical and emotional.

Corps uniform looks great and always well tailored. (Not a cop-out comment. Many corps look ragged).

Pride seems to leap off of the field.

Colts got ripped on this deal. Crossmen had no business being in finals, and Scouts while a cool show was very dirty, I won't comment about what we thought about Scouts' guard. Seems like there was just such a big push to get Scouts back in finals, that that was how it was going to happen, just like BD had to get some caption awards even though Phantom was way ahead in every sense of the way. The judges just can't seem to not recognize the favorites in some way. Go Colts!!!

[Scerpella]

Colts got ripped on this deal. Crossmen had no business being in finals, and Scouts while a cool show was very dirty, I won't comment about what we thought about Scouts' guard. Seems like there was just such a big push to get Scouts back in finals, that that was how it was going to happen, just like BD had to get some caption awards even though Phantom was way ahead in every sense of the way. The judges just can't seem to not recognize the favorites in some way. Go Colts!!!

A push to get Scouts back into finals? What parallel universe are you living in?

[liebot]

Madsin beat Crossmen in guard head to head Thursday at Quarters

Madison was also at a higher guard score the week into finals

And if you think the scores on Friday were on trac..... WRONG~~

Quarters was the only time all season Madison beat Xmen in guard. The other four times they went head to head Crossmen beat them by .6, .7, .9, and 1.3... in guard. That's not overall score, just guard score.

That's all I have to contribute to this discussion. The judges made their decision. Who am I to argue?