In light of the retreat discussion

[TerriTroop]

In the discussion of retreat behavior, one of the posts was from a 23-year old staffer who basically said he chooses not to focus on tradition and discipline in uniform because he would rather focus on performance excellence. In my response, I asserted that the two were not mutually exclusive, and one was not more important than the other. I also said that educating members that stupid BS in uniform is just as bad as slacking off at rehearsal is really a simple matter and easy to do.

So, here are some questions:

What is the responsibility of the corps leadership (directors, caption heads, drum major, corps commander, etc.) when it comes to behavior in uniform?

Are young instructors expected to help guide the character of the young people in their care just as much as they are the musical and movement work of the members?

Are those instructors mentored by older, trusted staff with a proven record of good standards regarding behavior in uniform?

Just some questions to start us off.

[dbc03]

In the discussion of retreat behavior, one of the posts was from a 23-year old staffer who basically said he chooses not to focus on tradition and discipline in uniform because he would rather focus on performance excellence. In my response, I asserted that the two were not mutually exclusive, and one was not more important than the other. I also said that educating members that stupid BS in uniform is just as bad as slacking off at rehearsal is really a simple matter and easy to do.

So, here are some questions:

What is the responsibility of the corps leadership (directors, caption heads, drum major, corps commander, etc.) when it comes to behavior in uniform?

Are young instructors expected to help guide the character of the young people in their care just as much as they are the musical and movement work of the members?

Are those instructors mentored by older, trusted staff with a proven record of good standards regarding behavior in uniform?

Just some questions to start us off.

If you're talking about what really is the case and not hypotheticals then I think it really depends on the corps.

At least from the outside looking in it seems like some corps are more focused on just producing excellent performers than producing excellent people.

[CVQuesty]

just... wow.

[crfrey71]

I think even though there is a lot of emotion, retreat should be a little more behaved. The activity was founded on military customs. Look at the Cadets during retreat. That is how it should be done.

[RickCogley]

Something I meant to say in the now-locked "classy Cadets" retreat thread. Though there were some antics that went on during past decades, certainly, one big difference nowadays from when I marched in the 80s is that it is now so easy to record the moments. If anything, it's logical to say that corps have to be _extra_ careful because of this ability to capture any moment including questionable ones.

That said, I think it's OK that corps have different retreat styles, and, I think it's even quite possible that the young adults on the field at retreat will be prone to goof off a bit. Maybe that's only natural after such a hard season. But I think some important lines were crossed this year, that should not have been crossed.

Although drum and bugle corps is not the military, it was founded upon military principles and often attached to VFW posts and the like.

It is most definitely the responsibility and duty of the corps directors, staff and vets in the corps to set the standards for behavior for time outside the 11 1/2 minutes performing the actual show, especially while one is in uniform. For pete's sake, marching members: don't get sloshed in uniform.

Cheers,

Rick

[FTNK]

Were Bluecoats really passing out and puking on themselves? Wow.

[2000Cadet]

Something I meant to say in the now-locked "classy Cadets" retreat thread. Though there were some antics that went on during past decades, certainly, one big difference nowadays from when I marched in the 80s is that it is now so easy to record the moments. If anything, it's logical to say that corps have to be _extra_ careful because of this ability to capture any moment including questionable ones.

That said, I think it's OK that corps have different retreat styles, and, I think it's even quite possible that the young adults on the field at retreat will be prone to goof off a bit. Maybe that's only natural after such a hard season. But I think some important lines were crossed this year, that should not have been crossed.

Although drum and bugle corps is not the military, it was founded upon military principles and often attached to VFW posts and the like.

It is most definitely the responsibility and duty of the corps directors, staff and vets in the corps to set the standards for behavior for time outside the 11 1/2 minutes performing the actual show, especially while one is in uniform. For pete's sake, marching members: don't get sloshed in uniform.

Cheers,

Rick

I remember in 1992 when I was 11 years old, I saw a commercial for the U.S. Navy and it showed a bunch of sailors lined up in ranks sort of like the drum corps retreat. Three years later I was introduced to drum corps and they showed retreat in the finals video. It reminded me of what I had seen three years earlier in that Navy commercial and I couldn't help but think to myself, they look exactly like the military. I mean I was uneducated about drum corps back then and couldn't help but associate drum corps with the military.

My point being, whenever I show people drum corps, most of them ask one of two questions. "Is this a marching band?", or "Is this some sort of military unit?" I think it would be excellent to keep drum corps associated with the traditions of the military.

I also think it is okay for drum corps to have their own retreat styles. I mean, after working hard all summer I guess it is okay to relax a little. But when it gets to the point where you are disrespecting another drum corps, I don't think it is cool to do that because not only are you showing how immature you are, but judging by the posts in the last thread about this topic, you also lose the respect that a lot of people had for you.

Drum majors should share a lot of responsibility in this because I mean they are in charge. I like to look at them as a Company Commander (as they call it in the military). And staff members young and old (especially older) should be mentoring the younger staff members because usually they have been around that specific corps much longer and know how things should be.

My .02 cents..

Here's to 2009!!

Edited August 15, 2008 by 2000Cadet

[TerriTroop]

Were Bluecoats really passing out and puking on themselves? Wow.

This particular story has not been officially corroborated to my knowledge, other than people posting on DCP that they saw it. I do not want internet rumors to get out of hand. It's not fair to the Bluecoats organization.

In general, the specific events (corroborated or not) of this year's retreat seem to point to an over-arching issue of hyper-focus on performance and hypo-focus on minimum standards for all marching members while in uniform, especially while standing in front of an audience to receive awards for - of all things - excellence.

So, why is excellence in performance an excuse for bad behavior in uniform? The problem goes back dozens of years, but it's still a good question. It's extraordinarily easy (and lazy) to simply say "well, drum corps is different now, so just suck it up and get used to it because it's not going to get better." But that is the answer many give when faced with questions about uniform behavior.

Having said all of that, I would also put forth that a majority of people on the finals field manage to keep their behavior in check. And of course, several corps hold decorum in uniform to very high standards. But the slippery slope is what I'm worried about: peer pressure from the organizations that are paraded around by DCI as the best of the best, including the staff and administrations of those organizations.

[Peel Paint]

This is easily fixable, and drum corps' military tradition provides the model.

DCI Board of Directors meets over the winter and "has a discussion" with all corps directors.

Each corps director "has a discussion" with that corps' drum majors, and again with the corps as a whole just prior to finals.

The drum majors "have a discussion" with section leaders.

Section leaders police it at finals.

The message goes down the line, chain of command: take pride and clean it up.

[TerriTroop]

This is easily fixable, and drum corps' military tradition provides the model.

DCI Board of Directors meets over the winter and "has a discussion" with all corps directors.

Each corps director "has a discussion" with that corps' drum majors, and again with the corps as a whole just prior to finals.

The drum majors "have a discussion" with section leaders.

Section leaders police it at finals.

The message goes down the line, chain of command: take pride and clean it up.

I agree fully with the concept. I hope it happens. Turning this thing around is not rocket science, and excuse-making for it is what is getting in the way of exactly what you propose.