Corps with a current identity crisis

[trionbd]

Nope, no corps has the marching technique of the Cadets! They simply are the best and I could pick them out even if all corps had the same uniforms. Come to think of it, no corps plays as many notes as they do either!

I would be able to pick out the Cadets because of the nausiating turn in my stomach that I get each time I listen to their most recent shows.

[cadetzoid]

Really??? Ok first of all you responded to the "stupid" thread so it must have sparked something in you. Stupidity? ha ha ha, it's a joke, don't get all riled up. Actually I disagree with you about both things you said. First of all there are coprs that lose their identity and they get nailed for it. Recent history says your Madison corps found that out. Also, in the past few years the Glassmen have changed their identity and while entertaining, they've got some questions to answer for themselves about how to get a vehicle to move up and whether the current path they are choosing will lead to better placement or worse in the future. Spirit is an example of this from this past summer, they stopped doing some of the things from the past few years and tried something new. It stung them a bit. I think any corps can go through an identity crises when you try something so off base from what you have been consistent in doing for many years. The Cadets are the ultimate identity crises corps right now. Is it hurting their placement? Maybe, maybe not, but eventually it could affect the type of member they get compared to Crown, Phantom, Bluecoats, BD etc...

As to my second point, it is not stupid for us to recognize things that are trends in the activity today. Some we may like and some we may not. Sure there are going to be changes every year, no one is saying there won't be, but why shouldn't we enjoy our DCP forum and talk about it?

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

Wes, you always make me think or rethink things. Obviously we both feel the same way on this topic, but you certainly have given me more things to think about, certainly regarding anyone you thinks the topic is not relevant to drum corps.

If the topic was "stupid" and not applicable to the activity, then does that mean that any corps could do anything, as long as they did it well?

Though this initially seems "right" to say or "fair" to say, it really doesn't match how people react to anything to which they are somewhat attached.

For instance: (interchange any corps with any of theses scenarios)

Madison chooses to do the Saint Seans "Organ Symphony", and they do it "well". You can't tell me that Madison followers would not be upset to some degree.

If SCV decides to do an all swing show, you can't tell me that there wouldn't be a mental disjunct with looking at that corps and hearing swing.

So BD plays the Charles Ives' Symphony #2, is the current staff comfortable with that as a creative base...shouldn't they continue to develop what they like/know?

People flock to the first show in 2009 to see Crown, not knowing they have switched to all black, with helmets, and are playing 12-tone Scheonberg. Will they be disappointed?

BAC decides to save the planet and hug some trees in 2009, so they wear all tie dye shirts, play variations on Indian ragas at mp, but do it well. What does B.A.C. stand for?

Though I think a corps can change styles, Madison is a good example (they have successfully sold Classical, Latin, Swing, Contemporary Christian, Broadway, Film Scores), but it is more than just doing it well. People mostly associate Scouts with an aggressive style with a testosterone swagger. This is also usually associated with Latin music they have played successfully many times. After reading this last sentence, some people will probably be thinking "What??? Classical music! Madison has never played Classical music, or Contemporary Christian music!" Its is because though those genres have been played, they are not the major "things" that fans identify with Scouts.

People who like movies go see movies of all sorts. When it gets specific, if seeing a Will Farrell movie, they want it to be like all the other Will Farrell movies they have seen so to speak. Not specifically, line for line or theme for theme, but in general...an identity that they associate with Will Farrell. Getting what you expect is a large part of the whole entertainment game. Isn't drum corps an entertainment game? all be it a competitive one?

Edited August 24, 2008 by cadetzoid

[hrnguy500]

Sure corps change up their styles once and a while probably because they want to explore something new. Maybe people/fans aren't liking a corps current style.The corps decides to change it up but then most of them realize that they just need to stick with what they have been doing. I.e. BK 2001 with Blue Toons and Phantom 2004...Appasionada 874 to name a couple.

Sure these two shows were entertaining but it left the crowd saying.....wait, was that who I thought it was?

Its okay to think twice about yourself. Tons of people have a mid-life crisis but they usually come back to their senses in the end but probably with a fresh perspective.

[derbydawg]

Sure corps change up their styles once and a while probably because they want to explore something new. Maybe people/fans aren't liking a corps current style.The corps decides to change it up but then most of them realize that they just need to stick with what they have been doing. I.e. BK 2001 with Blue Toons and Phantom 2004...Appasionada 874 to name a couple.

Sure these two shows were entertaining but it left the crowd saying.....wait, was that who I thought it was?

Its okay to think twice about yourself. Tons of people have a mid-life crisis but they usually come back to their senses in the end but probably with a fresh perspective.

I agree. I think a corps identity can be a fairly broad thing. An umbrella under which many things can fit. Moving to the edges of that umbrella or just outside probably does greatly aid a "fresh perspective". The top seven corps do seem to go through a shift every three or so seasons. Corps like Cavies 2008, in my opinion, need to move to that edge some more. I think 2007 was a good experiment, but I think not winning may have caused them to move back to the safest part of their comfort zone.

Corps like Spirit, have moved in and out of their comfort zone through out the last decade, they just haven't produced that really great show that helps them get the crowd behind what ever style that is. The don't have to do southern themes again, but they do need to connect with the audience better. The most positive snippets or adjectives that describe their most successful past ventures is probably where they need to start with planing their future. When they hit that first real connect-to-the-audience show, that show will then start to identify them.

[hrnguy500]

yeah I hate seeing Spirit kick around the dirt like they have been. Yeah they have made finals here and there as of late but their shows do lack a certain memorable quality. Their 03 show is their last show that I have really liked.

[wesleyrp]

Wes, you always make me think or rethink things. Obviously we both feel the same way on this topic, but you certainly have given me more things to think about, certainly regarding anyone you thinks the topic is not relevant to drum corps.

If the topic was "stupid" and not applicable to the activity, then does that mean that any corps could do anything, as long as they did it well?

Though this initially seems "right" to say or "fair" to say, it really doesn't match how people react to anything to which they are somewhat attached.

For instance: (interchange any corps with any of theses scenarios)

Madison chooses to do the Saint Seans "Organ Symphony", and they do it "well". You can't tell me that Madison followers would not be upset to some degree.

If SCV decides to do an all swing show, you can't tell me that there wouldn't be a mental disjunct with looking at that corps and hearing swing.

So BD plays the Charles Ives' Symphony #2, is the current staff comfortable with that as a creative base...shouldn't they continue to develop what they like/know?

People flock to the first show in 2009 to see Crown, not knowing they have switched to all black, with helmets, and are playing 12-tone Scheonberg. Will they be disappointed?

BAC decides to save the planet and hug some trees in 2009, so they wear all tie dye shirts, play variations on Indian ragas at mp, but do it well. What does B.A.C. stand for?

Though I think a corps can change styles, Madison is a good example (they have successfully sold Classical, Latin, Swing, Contemporary Christian, Broadway, Film Scores), but it is more than just doing it well. People mostly associate Scouts with an aggressive style with a testosterone swagger. This is also usually associated with Latin music they have played successfully many times. After reading this last sentence, some people will probably be thinking "What??? Classical music! Madison has never played Classical music, or Contemporary Christian music!" Its is because though those genres have been played, they are not the major "things" that fans identify with Scouts.

People who like movies go see movies of all sorts. When it gets specific, if seeing a Will Farrell movie, they want it to be like all the other Will Farrell movies they have seen so to speak. Not specifically, line for line or theme for theme, but in general...an identity that they associate with Will Farrell. Getting what you expect is a large part of the whole entertainment game. Isn't drum corps an entertainment game? all be it a competitive one?

Thanks but I think your post said it much better than mine. Well put!!

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

[Ryan H. Turner]

HEY!

We resembled that remark... and it worked, for the most part.

Well, I'm impressed...it took you a little over 10 hrs to figure out I took a shot across the bow of S.S. Freelancers.

Heeeeee heeeeee heeeee....and don't be crank calling me. I've got friends....with hoses...

[liebot]

Put Cadets, Cavies, BD, SCV, Phantom, BK and Boston on a field right after each other and I could tell you who was who simply based on marching technique. Hell, have them do some sort of basic marching exercise in a block and I could tell you who was who. The other corps have non-marching things that give them away. Crown's brass sound is pretty unmistakable. A lot of the lower corps have "identity crises" simply because they try new things from year-to-year to try and break into finals, the upper echelon, etc. It's easy when you find a successful formula and emulate it every year, but some of the lower corps have to try and shake things up so they can break into the top.

[contrajedi8]

I know I'm going to get trounced for saying this.

I don't think there is a corps out there with an identity problem bigger than the Madison Scouts.

First of all, pick a freakin' uniform and stick with it. You've had a different uniform every year since 2003.

You seem to be clinging to these imaginary glory days of yesteryear. I realize you may have been entertaining as hell. I enjoy your shows. You were dirty. And not exactly racking up titles or top 3 finishes.

I feel like if any corps needs to evolve and go a different direction, it's the Madison Scouts. A friend of mine called their current image a "rolling parody of themselves." I'm not saying I completely agree. I also don't completely disagree.

I know I'm going to get rocked for saying all this by over-zealous Madison Scouts alumni. They are just my opinions. Same as your opinions are yours.

Postscript: I am a Madison Scouts fan. I generally enjoy what they bring, and have brought, to the field.

[Kekkles]

I know I'm going to get trounced for saying this.

I don't think there is a corps out there with an identity problem bigger than the Madison Scouts.

First of all, pick a freakin' uniform and stick with it. You've had a different uniform every year since 2003.

You seem to be clinging to these imaginary glory days of yesteryear. I realize you may have been entertaining as hell. I enjoy your shows. You were dirty. And not exactly racking up titles or top 3 finishes.

I feel like if any corps needs to evolve and go a different direction, it's the Madison Scouts. A friend of mine called their current image a "rolling parody of themselves." I'm not saying I completely agree. I also don't completely disagree.

I know I'm going to get rocked for saying all this by over-zealous Madison Scouts alumni. They are just my opinions. Same as your opinions are yours.

Postscript: I am a Madison Scouts fan. I generally enjoy what they bring, and have brought, to the field.

actually, i've been thinking the same thing, but wasn't quite sure what words i wanted to use... but that's actually pretty darn close.

they're like the elvis of the 70's: cheesy, awkward, and clearly trying to get back to the elvis of the 50's and 60's. and it's still a good show, it's just... not the same... and it carries this sense of desperation, both from the performer and the fans.