Can a band director keep you from being in CG?

[backntheday]

I liked the idea of sticking with your horn and looking for an independent guard for winter as a solution. It may mean concert season is out for you but, if you want to spin then there you have it. We have had this situation with the band director I taught for and the guard never won. Notice I said "taught" for. The band director I currently teach for encourages the members to be where they are happy. He even encourages band members to do winter guard or winter percussion in addition to concert season. He see it as making the whole program stronger and keeping "his" kids in "his" program.

[N Murphy]

It could be that Katie got the DM position, even though she is a very good clarinet player, but Margie is there in that section and plays very well too, so it's ok for Katie to be DM. But, Margie can't do Color Guard because she's the best clarinet and she's needed to play the first part. The color guard will be fine without her, but the clarinet section will be severely disabled if she wasn't there.

My best advice is to discuss this with your band director, have your parents around, and talk about it. Don't get argumentative, don't get an attitude. It will make it worse. Try to understand his rules a bit better, and get an explanation.

Then remember that he is the band director, and you need to have respect for his decision, even if you don't agree with it.

The Katie/Margie story is similar to what happened, but what I'm having trouble understanding is that I went out for guard, placed near the top, was told I was needed on horn. I was disappointed but went along with BD's decision. The next year I was allowed to try out again - same thing - but while I was told I was needed on horn, another girl playing the same instrument (first chair) tried out and was allowed to be DM. I'm only trying to understand why this is OK.

Not everyone is cut out to be the Drum Major. My bet is that there are more people who could do CG. In our band, anyone can try out for DM. We had many try out, but there were only 3 who were cut out for it.

Our guard tryouts are in the spring before the band director knows what kinds of instruments he will be getting from the middle schools (marching band is not mandatory, so there is an even bigger question about who marches). If guard tryouts for you are the same way (before instrumentation is known for the next year) that could be why you were allowed to try out.

What year will you be next year? maybe you should start talking to the Director now about next year and stress how you really want to do color guard. You have played your horn for 2 years in the band and have not been allowed to participate in CG when you have made it past tryouts. Be nice, but also let him know how you really want to do this.

[Just Another Sop]

In a small way, I can understand why the BD would want you in band rather than guard. However, and I am making huge assumptions here without knowing the whole story, but the way you expressed it here, I think the BD may be a bit out of line.

He may have last say about things band related, but saying you can't do guard because he wants you in the band on the field I don't feel is right. That would be akin to a coach saying you are a great tennis player, but I need another person to fill the volleyball team. If his only explanation is because he needs more of your instrument in the band and it has nothing to do with your ability to do guard or the guard is full, then that is not right. Think of this, what if you, as a person simply decided that you do not want to play an instrument anymore? Could he force you to keep playing? That decision is yours.

There is nothing wrong with encouraging you to play in the band rather than be in the guard, but forcing you to do it is what is wrong. Some people have expressed that the guard is part of the band program and that is true, it is an important part of the marching band program. That being said, performers are needed in guard too. I know of a situation where the guard is not looked upon as part of the band. A clarinet player was told that if they marched guard instead of band that they would not be allowed to continue as the programs spirit leader. That was the leverage to force them to play clarinet. This year, she simply said "I no longer play clarinet." She is now on the guard.

If talking with your band director does not get you anywhere and he continues to force you into what you do not want to do, have your parents request a conference with the BD and your principal. If the BD has no justification for his reason other that he wants you in band, that probably will not hold water for the principal. In most schools, the principal can override the BD. Afterall that is their boss. If you do play the principal against the BD, be prepared to not be liked by the BD and if you want to play in concert band later, you may not be accepted for whatever reason the BD may want to come up with.

[twinmomma]

I don't get it. I was the colorguard coach at my alma mater for 6 years (with my father as band director). NEVER once did we tell an instrumentalist that they were more needed in the band than on guard. If they weren't good enough to make the team, they got cut. If they were, they were a guard member. PERIOD. It seems to me the BD has lost sight of the fact that Margie can simply quit band altogether and go to a drum corps or independent guard and then he loses her altogether. Why would you risk losing talent? Sure, my dad didn't like when he lost a good instrumentalist to guard, but EDUCATION is about teaching kids to persue their interests and becoming successful at WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO not what we choose for them.

While I agree the BD gets the last word, pulling someone from guard who is clearly talented enough to make the cut is ridiculous, counter-productive (results in a crappy attitude) and is the antithesis of what education is all about. Competitive marching band is still EDUCATION. If a BD wants to have full control like that, then he needs to look at getting involved with a drum corps. Education is not the place for a BD who pulls this kind of crap - destroying a teenager's dream. Great teacher.

[ATXguard]

I don't get it. I was the colorguard coach at my alma mater for 6 years (with my father as band director). NEVER once did we tell an instrumentalist that they were more needed in the band than on guard. If they weren't good enough to make the team, they got cut. If they were, they were a guard member. PERIOD. It seems to me the BD has lost sight of the fact that Margie can simply quit band altogether and go to a drum corps or independent guard and then he loses her altogether. Why would you risk losing talent? Sure, my dad didn't like when he lost a good instrumentalist to guard, but EDUCATION is about teaching kids to persue their interests and becoming successful at WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO not what we choose for them.

While I agree the BD gets the last word, pulling someone from guard who is clearly talented enough to make the cut is ridiculous, counter-productive (results in a crappy attitude) and is the antithesis of what education is all about. Competitive marching band is still EDUCATION. If a BD wants to have full control like that, then he needs to look at getting involved with a drum corps. Education is not the place for a BD who pulls this kind of crap - destroying a teenager's dream. Great teacher.

Just a quick response to this:

In the most recent HS program I worked for, the band director would directly tell instrumentalists who were interested in trying guard during marching band season to not try out because if they didn't make it he "couldn't guarantee" they'd have a spot on the field next year in marching band. If they did winterguard, he would tell them that since they had improved so much, they were more likely to get a leadership role in the band, as long as they played their instrument during marching season.

He then got mad when we didn't have much turnout for guard auditions for marching band.

That's only part of the story, but basically, it's the way things worked there. Sometimes it's not always about denying someone the opportunity directly; sometimes it's about planting seeds of doubt, which is very easy to do with teenagers.

Edited October 17, 2008 by ATXguard

[ATXguard]

oops. sorry. tried to edit previous post. :-/

Edited October 17, 2008 by ATXguard

[Musical_Spinner]

What the band director decides SHOULD ALWAYS GO. If you don't like the way the band is run, there is the door (metaphorically, football fields don't really have doors.....oh wait). There is absolutely no leverage held by the parents or the students to demand what section the student is in. It's a performance group, and the best performance should be put on the field. There is no entitlement to be in the show or in the band just because you have been there before, just like in drum corps when the corps can cut a vet.

Bringing parents in is the absolute worst idea. It could be one thing for them to call and ask about the situation or the decision but challenging that decision is a terrible road to go down.

If I was the director and a student bluffed to leave or get parents involved in a negative way they would be kicked out in a heart beat.

[twinmomma]

ATX -- To me that's manipulative and again, anti-educational.

Musical Spinner -- School Marching Bands are still SCHOOL. If you are on the softball team, and you decide to try out for Tennis, and your softball coach prevented you from doing so, or let you do so and then pulled you back on to the softball team when that wasn't where you wanted to be, then there would be heck to pay. This is ridiculous. Why should a marching band be any different?

I have to say, given the attitudes I'm seeing here, I thank my lucky stars that our band and guard was a place that was welcoming and encouraging, not cutthroat and vindictive. What Margie is going through is not only discriminatory in my eyes (preventing from being on guard because she plays an instrument) but teaches her that she needs to accept her lot in life and doesn't get to change her own destiny. Great lessons from a TEACHER. Band Director or not, he is a teacher FIRST.

[Will]

I'm on board with "twinmomma".

Margie should be allowed to participate in whichever section she wants and if she's good enough to make the guard section, than let her do guard. Don't squelch a childs interests just because YOU (i.e. the band director) want her to play her instrument. She won't be as inclined to excel at her horn if her hearts with the guard.

[justgin]

I'm the guard director at our school, but also married to the band director. We've had kids in a similar situation before, and I think the key is that EVERYONE involved needs to be up front about their position so the others can make an informed decision.

The student needs to be up front about how willing they are to stay on their horn if they don't get a spot in the guard. If being in band isn't something they enjoy on their horn, then the band director should know that quitting is on the horizon if they're not willing to continue on an instrument.

The band director needs to be up front with the student about what the chances are of getting a spot in the guard. If there's no chance they're going to let you move off your instrument, then that should be clear BEFORE going through the audition process.

I don't think it's out of line for the student to say they will quit all together if they aren't allowed to march in the guard after successfully passing through the audition process. If they would rather not be in the band at all than play their horn, that is certainly their choice. I'm not advocating it, but I don't think anyone should say the child is out of line for not wanting to continue something they don't enjoy.

On the other hand, if the band director is willing to sit down and tell the student the reasons behind keeping him/her on an instrument, there could easily be some middle ground that could be acceptable to both. We have a very talented young lady who marches in our winter guard, and originally planned to try out for the fall guard this year. After my husband explained to her that instead of trumpet, he needed her to change over to mellophone, and be a leader in that section, she made the choice to stay on her horn. If she'd decided to still try out for guard, he certainly would have allowed it, but knowing how much she was needed elsewhere made it easier for her to make a decision that both of them felt good about.

Throughout the "building years" of our winter guard, most of our strongest performers played their instruments in the fall and only participated in guard in the winter. There are ALWAYS ways to work it out, but BOTH have to be willing to find them.