roosevelt Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 1. Greg Orwell actually stated on the Colts website that the organization is far from where it should be at this point in the season. You might want to check your facts on that one.2. What guarantee is there that Scouts or Blue Stars will make finals? In 2007 Colts went from 13th/14th to 10th and dropped back down to 14th. Why are Scouts and Blue Stars are immune to this? 3. Why couldn't Glassmen, Boston, or Blue Knights drop out of finals? They are just as much in danger of getting beat out by Crossmen, Colts, or Spirit. Are you insinuating that they simply have secure spots because they are finals regulars? With that ideology I don't know if drum corps should have the respect it should. The Best corps should be in finals, plain and simple. I'm sure you agree with this. 4. You speculating about Crossmen is just as valid as my speculation about Colts, except that I have heard the music. (If you have heard Crossmens' I'm sorry) You are right. It is all speculation.... that was my point from the beginning There are no guarantees. That is why I think your guarantee that Colts will be in finals is ridiculous. Now I will respond to each of your statements individually 1. Greg Orwell actually stated on the Colts website that the organization is far from where it should be at this point in the season. You might want to check your facts on that one. I did not know that. Thanks for clarifying. The chatter on this site last year suggested the opposite (not that that means anything) 2. What guarantee is there that Scouts or Blue Stars will make finals? In 2007 Colts went from 13th/14th to 10th and dropped back down to 14th. Why are Scouts and Blue Stars are immune to this? There is no guarantee. What the Scouts and the blue stars have over the Colts is more talent and a better design staff. Make no mistake about it, Kevin Ford and Ramiro Barrera are the real deal. Even then, there is no guarantees.... which is my whole point 3. Why couldn't Glassmen, Boston, or Blue Knights drop out of finals? They are just as much in danger of getting beat out by Crossmen, Colts, or Spirit. Are you insinuating that they simply have secure spots because they are finals regulars? With that ideology I don't know if drum corps should have the respect it should. The Best corps should be in finals, plain and simple. I'm sure you agree with this. I do agree that the best drum corps should be in finals..... that does not always happen. The corps that were there the previous year have an advantage over the corps that didnt. They usually get better talent because of their competitive inertia and they get better performing slots (which makes a difference). They also get the benefit of the doubt from the judging community, which like it or not, does happen. 4. You speculating about Crossmen is just as valid as my speculation about Colts, except that I have heard the music. (If you have heard Crossmens' I'm sorry) I have not heard crossmen's music. I do know that they had hundreds of people auditioning for their brass line in a talent rich area such as texas. I dont care one way or the other about crossmen making finals. To be honest, I would much rather see a lot of drum corps make it into finals except for them. But they are going to have a lot of talent in the corps and the organization is run very very well. But you are right, it is just speculation.... and that is my whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGuy1288 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I see there is a huge argument brewing here over relatively nothing, so like any good DCPer, I'm here to offer my opinion on the whole thing. In regards to the Colts being behind right now: Well obviously. They haven't had a camp yet, and in order for progress to be made, camps must be held. What people seem to be missing is the fact that the Colts start later than any other corps every year, and it hasn't hurt them in the past. Also, after the December camp was cancelled, a February camp was added, making the grand total of camps identical to the total number of camps last year and the year before. There's not much to worry about here. In regards to staff and show design: You can never know for sure if something's working or not until the summer. Like someone said earlier, sometimes things will look great during the camps, but not work work come summertime. The opposite can also happen. We can't see the future, so I vote let's just let the future happen and see what's in store. In regards to finding talented kids to march: Don't make a big deal about this one. It's not about finding people who are already good, though that is a great thing. For the Colts, it seems to be more about finding kids with potential and the dedication to be the best possible. They're probably not going to have trouble filling the hornline/guard/percussion. They've come out every year with a full corps, just like everyone else, and this year won't be any different, even with the one camp cancellation. In regards to keeping this post on topic: Realistically, I think the corps with the most potential to make finals (after not making it this past season) are Crossmen, Colts, and Spirit. Crossmen and Colts both finished less than a point away from making finals, and Spirit put up some fierce competition for the corps around that placement throughout the entire summer. Placements were flipflopping right until the very end. I can't wait to see what happens next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPhantom25 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 There is no guarantee. What the Scouts and the blue stars have over the Colts is more talent and a better design staff. Make no mistake about it, Kevin Ford and Ramiro Barrera are the real deal. Even then, there is no guarantees.... which is my whole point Don't let Cesario hear you say that hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Don't let Cesario hear you say that hahaha. I don't have to... he knows it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXThRowTHeFlaGXx Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I would be excited about seeing Surf somewhere high in Semi's :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) Saw a mention of Crossmen setting up camps around the country. That didn't really help anything for them. They had very low numbers at their West Chester and their Kansas camp. Most of their talent is from texas. And way to many are basing everything over talent. Yeah talent helps, but it's amazing what you can do when you have a great staff, and a group of people willing to work their ##### off. No matter the talent the group that has the best staff, and the most drive to improve will be a great corps. Don't get me wrong, talent helps a whole lot, but it can work in the opposite direction if your not careful, look at the Dallas Cowboys.. Each drum corps is a TEAM Edited January 13, 2009 by kickhaltsforlife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyle079 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 ...snip... Don't get me wrong, talent helps a whole lot, but it can work in the opposite direction if your not careful, look at the Dallas Cowboys..Each drum corps is a TEAM :huh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OdeToArsenal47 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If I were a judge, I'd say that Colts would be the guys to get in and I think that (gasp!) Scouts will be the guys to fall. But there's always a possibility that the judges fall asleep during the BK show and give the corps a crappy score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Saw a mention of Crossmen setting up camps around the country. That didn't really help anything for them. They had very low numbers at their West Chester and their Kansas camp. Most of their talent is from texas.And way to many are basing everything over talent. Yeah talent helps, but it's amazing what you can do when you have a great staff, and a group of people willing to work their ##### off. No matter the talent the group that has the best staff, and the most drive to improve will be a great corps. Don't get me wrong, talent helps a whole lot, but it can work in the opposite direction if your not careful, look at the Dallas Cowboys.. Each drum corps is a TEAM That's great and all, but DCI and the NFL don't really compare. In the NFL those people are professionals and they are treated and paid as such, in DCI they are not. A better comparison of talent is more applicable to college football. For example, you wont see a school like Utah State or North Texas beating Florida or USC. The talent gap is too wide. Sure, if the coaching staff of UNT or Utah State was the best in college football and the coaching staff of USC or Florida was terrible than maybe they would have a shot. Even then that is still a maybe since the talent level is so uncomparable. This is why you see people in the college ranks worried so much about recruiting. Talent matters as much as the instructional staff's. Spend some time in a critique with corps in the both tiers and you will see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 That's great and all, but DCI and the NFL don't really compare. In the NFL those people are professionals and they are treated and paid as such, in DCI they are not. A better comparison of talent is more applicable to college football. For example, you wont see a school like Utah State or North Texas beating Florida or USC. The talent gap is too wide. Sure, if the coaching staff of UNT or Utah State was the best in college football and the coaching staff of USC or Florida was terrible than maybe they would have a shot. Even then that is still a maybe since the talent level is so uncomparable. This is why you see people in the college ranks worried so much about recruiting. Talent matters as much as the instructional staff's. Spend some time in a critique with corps in the both tiers and you will see what I mean. I know if you tell some corps they aren't professional they might be offended. It was mainly just a Dallas Cowboys kick... cause I'm an EAGLES fan, lol.. as all my credibility just flew out the window. But your college football example works in any sport professional or down to micro-mini soccer. I did say that talent does matter, just not as much as people think it does. Out of the top 5 it would be interesting to actually watch and see each member at the beginning of the season, just to see each corps talent level. This may be a bold statement but I'm pretty positive it is true: A corps could have the most talent, but if it is not used in the right way they will suffer, and not be considered one of the best corps. The instructional and design staff are SO important in drum corps. Talent is also tricky where you could have someone who is an all-american musician first chair, but they can't march for crap. That completely negates all of their musical talent, unless you give them a spot on the front side-line to stand still all show. Talent doesn't make or break a corps, it helps, but the way the staff uses the talent factors very highly in what actually can come of it. Also a corps doesn't work unless it is a team. From the executive director down to the 14 year old rookie, it's a team, just like any sport. The most talented does not always win, the best coached with the addition of some talent will dominate. It takes a hell of a lot more than talent to do anything in drum corps. Anyway back to top 12 predictions... which i still say will be a more interesting race than the one for gold.. as it usually is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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