tell me if I'm wrong and why

[Lancerlady]

Also in some corps paying staff wasn't as much of a big thing as it is in today's drum corps. I mean some of the instructors I know from 27 NEVER got paid, never asked for money and did it for the love of the activity, I know for a fact. Some and most of todays instructors, it's all about instant music majors. There is no more of this taking a kid off the street handing him a horn, if he has a good ear take the time to teach the music. I think the activity misses the take the kid off the street days and that may be another factor in why some are folding, etc....

I marched with plenty of play by ear players that were better then music majors, but somebody took the TIME to TEACH them.

I guess I'm saying it just seems to be more about making money then what it used to be about.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Lancerlady

[MikeD]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

Well, here is my take...

Each era of drum corps was the 'state of the art' for it's era, going back before my time. And...while corps played easier music and marched easier drill than today, shows were not any more about entertainment than they are today. We worked as hard as we could to execute our shows...to play the music as well as we could. We tweaked our shows...watered down parts..changed entire numbers...did everything we could to maximize our scores.

Do kids burn out more today? There were plenty of short timers 'then' as there are 'now. Plus, in a lot of cases kids are marching four years of competitive band and then joining a corps and their college band, music majors and non-music majors.

IMO crowds are not really declining. We had lots of shows in my era at HS fields that held under 1000 people...well under 1000. Yes, there were a few at large venues, but not all that many. And as crowds today have a lot of alumni and HS band members, crowds then at local 'A' shows had alumni and lots of kids from small 'B' corps. If people think Open class shows are not marketed or well attended today...lots of 'B' shows had little if ANY audience. Yes...there were exceptions, of course, but that is what they were...exceptions.

[Jeff Ream]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

you're right and wrong.

much of what you write is true...yet there are many, many stories that prove what you write is wrong.

[JamMan]

I agree with Gene. I do say that looking back at some DVD's from the 70's I can see why some kids today would not be that blown away by the playing, but it would be nice if they would try to understand that for the history of that time, the complexity of playing the arrangements on those horns was very hard.

The HORN books were complex. The DRUM books were far from it. There have been leaps and bounds in percussion since then.

[JimF-LowBari]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

I'd say that's some of it. Add unholy cost of being a member and running/starting up a corps today. I was around in the 70s and lot of the loss of corps had to do with expenses (including declining membership). And of course, less local corps so less local shows. And since the price of attending a show has gone up so badly, DC lost the casual fan who went because a show was an economical way to be entertained.

[TerriTroop]

My take, if I can sum it up quickly:

1. Drum corps used to serve a much more local purpose, and now (yes, somewhat due to the remoteness of the Troopers and the advent of national touring) the purpose is different. Good or bad - no real answer for me there. Local communities changed just as much as drum corps did, but I've got ideas about how to build local programs. (that's another thread though)

2. High school band programs now do the job that many local drum corps used to do.

3. Cost. No need to restate what others have already eloquently described as the price point issue.

That's my quick 2 cents before I dash off for the day.

[Captncontra]

Lets also not forget that many schools are cutting back/getting rid of music education. There just aren't as many participants.

Add to that the fact that we're getting more and more obese, attention spans are getting shorter and shorter, and there are just SO many more ways to entertain yourself over the summer. Why work your ### off when you can play video games etc.? Learning an instrument and marching is pretty far down the list of stuff to do.

The declining accessibility to music in schools is sad, but most schools treat it as a luxury they can do without. Most of the high schools around me have no feeder schools anymore. We're testing the kids to death and not exposing them to enough of the arts. Kids come into their high school marching band programs with zero experience and it shows in the low quality of programs. Show me a really good high school program and I'll show you some good feeder schools.

If a kid wants to play music these days its much easier to just buy a cheap guitar and read tabs off of a computer screen at home.

[MikeD]

I'd say that's some of it. Add unholy cost of being a member and running/starting up a corps today. I was around in the 70s and lot of the loss of corps had to do with expenses (including declining membership). And of course, less local corps so less local shows. And since the price of attending a show has gone up so badly, DC lost the casual fan who went because a show was an economical way to be entertained.

On the other hand...when I was driving up to Garfield in 1971 from the Jersey shore area, I paid 29 cents a gallon for gas at a spot on Rt 9 at the Freehold NJ circle.

Salaries? I started teaching in 1976 making $9,280 a year. My wife, an RN, was making somewhere around 11-12K.

Yes there are far fewer corps and shows. As for the casual fan...shows in my era had some come and watch, to be sure, especially if they were attached to some sort of community event (e.g. fireman's parade, Jul 4th celebration, etc...), and the shows were usually held at the local HS, often with the guy bringing in those old (dim) temporary lights set up on glorified ladders...I still recall his truck sitting just outside the endzone as the motor that powered the lights chugged along. Even in that era, though, much of the audience at a class 'A' show was made up of "insiders"...alums and kids who marched in local smaller corps (e.g. Garden State Circuit). Today shows are attended in large part by alums and hordes of band kids...many of them bussed in large numbers.

Is the cost today "unholy"? For what the members receive? Hardly, IMO. Professional level instruction...3 months of housing and meals...the experience of a lifetime...IMO it's still a cost effective way to receive a lesson in "life" and be able to perform for thousands and thousands of fans.

[JimF-LowBari]

On the other hand...when I was driving up to Garfield in 1971 from the Jersey shore area, I paid 29 cents a gallon for gas at a spot on Rt 9 at the Freehold NJ circle.

LOL, my grandfather had a gas station (Pioneer, then Esso) and think gas stayed around 29.9 for years until the stuff hit the fan in the mid 70s. And I was looking at NanciDs DC History blog and kept seeing $1, $1.50 for shows ($3 for choice DCA seats), even with inflation that's fairly cheap. (Of course back then the corps could AFFORD to charge a few bucks a seat.)

Yes there are far fewer corps and shows. As for the casual fan...shows in my era had some come and watch, to be sure, especially if they were attached to some sort of community event (e.g. fireman's parade, Jul 4th celebration, etc...), and the shows were usually held at the local HS, often with the guy bringing in those old (dim) temporary lights set up on glorified ladders...I still recall his truck sitting just outside the endzone as the motor that powered the lights chugged along. Even in that era, though, much of the audience at a class 'A' show was made up of "insiders"...alums and kids who marched in local smaller corps (e.g. Garden State Circuit). Today shows are attended in large part by alums and hordes of band kids...many of them bussed in large numbers.

OK, I should have mentioned that I was talking about annual DCA shows (on the DCI thread *gasp* ) as that's my background.

Is the cost today "unholy"? For what the members receive? Hardly, IMO. Professional level instruction...3 months of housing and meals...the experience of a lifetime...IMO it's still a cost effective way to receive a lesson in "life" and be able to perform for thousands and thousands of fans.

I won't get into if costs for a top DCI corps are unholy. BUT.... if anyone wants to be in or start up a "lesser" local corps, costs are the biggest roadblock IMO (and that's the unholy I was thinking about). Again IMO, the biggest reason why Alumni-type corps are the current DC growth area, cuz the members can most afford to pay for their equipment.

[kickhaltsforlife]

Marching drum corps is a good deal... especially money wise... heck this a bit extreme, but my friend is going away to a religious camp for a week, and it is costing him 10K... and no he isn't Catholic (sorry to offend, I am also Catholic). But 2,000 for a whole summer, meals, housing, transportation all included, plus professional instruction, it's completely worth the price.

the biggest problem is the time commitment needed. I know for me I don't really have the time to do it, but I'm stupid, and don't often live in the real world :)

a lot f kids my age are full time students. a lot of people who would like to march are music ed majors... which is one of the most time consuming majors ever.. no one can really afford to go to college over 4 years. Summer classes are a must for many music students.. especially if you mess up one class in one semester, you are behind... especially here in PA where they just upped the amount of Inclusion credits we have to take to get cert.

The time commitment for world class drum corps is ridiculous... it is pretty much a year round thing... you have a 2 month break... that is about it.

sure there are plenty who do it, like me, but it is tough.

why not march open class? I find out a lot of people who are fans of drum corps vaguely know what open class or div 2 or 3 is... yeah.. thank you DCI and pushing the top 6 corps.. only.

And there are many more reasons.

Basically the activity isn't as accessible as it was back in the day...

In a perfect world the activity could contain it's excellence today, and become more accessible.