Brigscontrachik05 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) I hope there is no "Phantom Effet" . Their 2008 show was amazing, but it was so original, over-the-top and proper to PR that they kind of own this for now. Any switch from other corps in the close future towards this style would just be disappointing wannabes (In my opinion). Unless of course they re-invent it and bring something even more amazing to the field, which is pretty hard. The PR show received that response because it was performed amazingly, and they received that .02 something to put them on top because it was so unique (again, in my opinion). My point is that I just hope the corps stay true to themselves and their styles. Edited May 14, 2009 by Brigscontrachik05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Cadets may have been technically proficient, but imo, they show was not performed technically better than the other four corps. Looking at the feet and listening to them and the other corps shed some light on that (for me). So I respect your opinion, but I really don't agree with it. I'm not gonna say that other aspects won't contribute to the ability to win, but I think a storyline is just the icing on the cake. I still believe that the corps that performed their show better was the corps that deserved to win. Fair enough -- and you probably looked at their show more closely than did I, so I'll defer on the performance assessment. btw, I'm not saying that storyline is required or adds to your score or anything like that. What I'm saying is that IF you CHOOSE to have a storyline, how that storyline is integrated into your overall design will affect your ability to generate maximum GE, regardless of how well performed. We're talking fractions of points here, but every little bit counts to seperate the top 6 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megadrive Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Even as big of a Phanton fan as I am, I hope there is no Spartacus effect. Granted 2008 Phantom did what they did very well. But when I go to a drum corps show, I want BD to play some rip-roaring jazz, I want Cavies to run around doing something I thought not physically possible, I want Crown to entertain means by any means necessary, and I WANT the Cadets to have an ending so incredibly cool that I will have packed babies for that show only. If a high school band did Spartacus, it would fall flat on its face. Storytelling is a good way to design a show, but it is not the only and not necessarily the best way. The best shows IMO take me somewhere, and you don't need a story to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricNewmanEd Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Even as big of a Phantom fan as I am, I hope there is no Spartacus effect. Granted 2008 Phantom did what they did very well. But when I go to a drum corps show, I want BD to play some rip-roaring jazz, I want Cavies to run around doing something I thought not physically possible, I want Crown to entertain means by any means necessary, and I WANT the Cadets to have an ending so incredibly cool that I will have packed babies for that show only. If a high school band did Spartacus, it would fall flat on its face. Storytelling is a good way to design a show, but it is not the only and not necessarily the best way. The best shows IMO take me somewhere, and you don't need a story to do so. I agree. One of the coolest parts of drum corps, IMO, is the variety of shows you get to see. If everyone started to try to copy one another, I think drum corps would cease to be interesting. I like that all the corps are good at different aspects of shows--Phantom is known for good music, Cavs for visual, etc. Sure, some shows I like more than others, but at least I know I'm going to get something different with every performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpt43 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm not so sure the crowd reaction had so much to do with Sparticus. Granted I loved the show...and it was great...and it did add to the crowd reaction, but I think the biggest influence on crowd reaction was the fact that it was Phantom and they had a chance to win....not necessarily the show they were doing...If in 2009 we find a corps that historically hasn't won...or hasn't won in a long time...I think they'll probably get close to the same reaction as Phantom did...regardless of what their show is....The crowd (at least I) are looking for underdogs (and new dogs) to topple the historic powerhouses...even if it's only every so often...Having an emotional energetic show definitely helps...though...IMHO Sorry Gary, I have to disagree. I think it was totally the show and the salemanship of the corps pulling of the story. They played well (as usual) and marched an effective drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I almost hesitate to write this post, because I know it's going to be taken in ways unintended to jump start the whole regular nonsense, but here goes anyway ... One thing that stood out for me with the Spartacus show was their ability really tell a story that the audience could follow easily even without necessarily having known the Spartacus story previously. INSTANT DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT BASHING THE USE OF NARRATION IN THIS POST OR SUGGESTING THAT NARRATION ISN'T NECESSARY OR CAN'T ADD TO THE STORYTELLING OR REALLY ANYTHING ABOUT NARRATION WHATSOEVER, SO PLEASE DON'T GO THERE. Even the Faust show, which I also liked, didn't really convey the storyline as well, imo. If you didn't already know the story of Faust, I'm not sure you got what was going on -- guy loves girl, deal with the devil, overindulgence, girl dies, redemption?, etc. Heck, even the various Faust stories over the years are different from each other, so I'm not really clear on the story Phantom was trying to tell. Still loved the music and visual, et al, but it wasn't quite championship-level cohesiveness, imo. Spartacus, however, had it all. Even if you never heard of Spartacus, from the moment Phantom entered the stadium, you were drawn into the story -- mean overlords abusing slaves, one of the soldiers seems more sympathetic, slave love story, head soldier kills slave, slaves revolt, get thrown down, sympathetic soldier joins slaves cause, much rejoicing. Maybe you don't get all the nuances of the story (one woman behind thought that the head soldier was Spartacus), but you still got the jist and went along for the ride. Plus awesome music and visuals .... What's my point? My point is that I hope that corps who choose to tell a story with their show (DISCLAIMER #2: I'M NOT SAYING THAT CORPS SHOULD TRY TO TELL A STORY OR EVEN THAT I PREFER THAT, JUST GIVING SOME ADVICE TO CORPS WHO CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE) that they learn something from Spartacus. Integrating story with drill with music with whatever other tools you choose to hook the audience into your story is not easy, but Phantom proved that it is possible. Throwing a storyline over some songs and drill is no longer acceptable for a championship-calibur show. So what I hope is the Spartacus-Effect is that story-telling shows are brought to this higher full-blown production level or not at all. Meaning that corps who choose to tell a story do so in the full-blown production manner as Phantom 08, and that those who cannot or are not willing to do that, instead focus on kick-butt drill and music and leave the storytelling to the others. Both types of shows are capable of being championship-calibur -- what is not is trying to do both and not fully succeeding at either. yeah that sums it up pretty #### well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm not so sure the crowd reaction had so much to do with Sparticus. Granted I loved the show...and it was great...and it did add to the crowd reaction, but I think the biggest influence on crowd reaction was the fact that it was Phantom and they had a chance to win....not necessarily the show they were doing...If in 2009 we find a corps that historically hasn't won...or hasn't won in a long time...I think they'll probably get close to the same reaction as Phantom did...regardless of what their show is....The crowd (at least I) are looking for underdogs (and new dogs) to topple the historic powerhouses...even if it's only every so often...Having an emotional energetic show definitely helps...though...IMHO i'll disagree to a point. yeah Phantom getting their own title may have helped.....but this show just reached people, and honestly, in a way I haven't seen since 2000 Boston. Sure the underdog there too...first time top 5....but the marraige of music and visual, with the awesome story telling....thats what got it. In fact, had they not won, It'd still be talked about more than BD or Cavies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 actually, reading thru this thread, it seems to me Phantom mastered what Cesario talked about at the 08 TIA/NJA winter clinic: too often designers come out with these technically proficient shows, come up with a theme that makes sense, but does not always engage. What Phantom did tho is add that cheese....to draw the viewer in, make them feel that emotion...be it stand up and yell, cry, boo, be stunned silent. judges are people too, as well as fans of this activity. if you engage them and make them cheer like a fan, you can get double the reward...which Phantom did. cheese, when done right CAN go a long way....for fans and judges. Cesario wouldn't lie would he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffffingloud Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 The Spartacus Effect sounds a lot like the "Machine" effect, where the Cavaliers chanted on the way into the stadium and had a thematic show that started as they entered, continued through warmup until the last note ended. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 last night was the first time i ever saw the show. i hope drum corps doesn't try to emulate this. there are only maybe 2 corps who could pull it off without being called "cheesy." also, why did they change the story of spartacus? it didn't make any sense to me that the slaves "won." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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