How do you want your guard?

[zackiedude]

Where else do you see a group willing to toss sixes, somersault over each other and catch each other's rifles?

Whomever instructs this guard has got to have been a former Cavalier. We were doing this kind of stuff on the field in the early eighties. Definately my kind of Guard!!! :)

Heh... for some reason I don't think it is.. unless he just happens to like Eminem :)

[ContraRich77]

True... I agree with most of the points you made regarding things I brought up.  And you got me on the "born into" thing.   :) 

 

Andy

p.s. G... the thing with 88 Suncoast is more relative to the time.  I look at that show and see costumes, theatrics, dance, and some props (used to enhance the story and change costumes (not uniforms)) and I see a guard that does many of the things a lot of you criticize.  And a note... I love that show along with all of those great Suncoast shows... how about those hornlines too!!! WHEW!  Take care.

LOL...I didnt mean to "get" you at all !! Maybe it sounds harsher than it is meant to be but I actually wanted to know......no biggie, as you and I have discussed this privately !! And sorry, if It sounded rude.

88 Suncoast, after watching it again after a long time, wow !! what great ensemble flag work, and the rifle line ?? Again, the birth of todays colorguards, only to be taken out of its infancy stage in 1989 by the same guard (along with Cadets) There was alot of "dancing" and "role palying" in the 88 show, more than I remembered...I cringed a little when reviewing it for this thread but then I realized that ...it was done right, ...and it fit the show...I guess that is the bottom line.

When I think of Suncoast Sound, the first thing that comes to my mind is their awesome Brass line. Awesome arrangements, and excellent total sound. I think Robert Smith broke ground in arranging in regards to Suncoast Sound...and (to get back on topic) If only the guards of 1984-1986 were up to par with the rest of the corps, they coulda been unstoppable.......

~G~

I can't let this post pass without comment........The 1988 Suncoast Sound is one of my favorite drum corps shows of all time........and it was an all original composition. The Suncoast Sound is the first DCI Finalist corps that I know of that marched shows of all original composition in more than one season. VERY powerful and ground breaking show, I feel they could have placed higher than they did. Interesting and POWERful horn parts, JAMMIN drum section and VERY, VERY integrated colorguard. They captured the essence of that show QUITE well.

[jojo]

However, do not assume that just because someone has not actually spun a rifle means they can not discuss it. By that very reason alone, Sally shouldn't be discussing drum corps at all.

You don't have to be a chicken to recognize an egg ... right guys? I don't play snare but I know a good snare line when I see/hear one ... I assume the same holds true in this case ... ANYWAY

Doesn't anyone miss the tricks that guards used to do? I know I do. Headchoppers, exchanges, etc. Remember when 27th did rifle spins lying down !!! I remember the all-male rifle lines doing some phenomenal stuff that was entertaining as #### ... almost death defying it seemed at times Or how about the humongous rifle exchange the Troopers did in the circle.

I appreciate dance and dance technique but I get bored by too much of it in a "pretty show". When done in conjunction with equipment work it can be beautiful but I'd like to see guards bring back more tricks.

Oh, and I agree that dance is more of a winterguard thing ... not a field thing.

ok ... leaving the soapbox (for now ^0^ )

[corps9499]

I'm going to make myself VERY unpopular here, but I'm going to say it anyway. I voted for the second one. To me, the difficulty comes in this: triad, triad, triad!!! And by this I mean both the performance triad as well as the G.E. triad. Someone else said what makes this activity difficult is the combination of dance and equipment. I argue that what makes color guard interesting is that you are trying to accomplish body (dance), equipment and movement (drill) while projecting intellectual, aestethic and emotional effects. When you do all six of those things at the same time (combining both the performance and GE triads)-- now you are talking some hard ####.

Doing a grande jeté while throwing a six and moving 10 yards of drill passing through the hornline, while projecting strength and technique, but making it look effortless and smiling the whole time (or whatever the appropriate facial expression is for the music).... well let's just say that's a lot harder than doing a grande jeté OR throwing a six OR moving 10 yards of drill doing a passthrough OR projecting strength OR making it look effortless OR smiling.

Oh and I've done eq exchanges before... they are hard, but not any harder than what I described above. And they aren't any less dangerous or death defying than throwing a 45° angled toss on top of a 8 foot prop while you do a dance move under the toss. I've done all three of these moves... they are all hard and scary until you practice them enough that you feel comfortable doing them. and if you don't believe me, I suggest attempting the different actions described before saying they aren't hard.

I think we lose some of the WOW factor by design and training... intentionally. We expect the kids to do all this hard stuff but then we tell them to make it look effortless. guard members are expected to have the strength and power of an athlete - but without the grunting! don't let them see you sweat.

another thing-- you can all stop bashing ballet on the field. from what I've seen most of today's guards base their dance programs on modern dance not ballet. i could go into a long lengthy discussion about the difference, however I really doubt most of you would care. :)

South Shore Drill Team is awesome btw!!! They have a way of just owning the room when they perform. Seriously, I was at the WGI midwest regional in Feb and there was this group of older women (60s I'd say) and they were standing up whooping and hollering and cheering like ti was nobody's buisiness! And to a show based on music from Eminem! They are an IW guard in WGI. In fact, I bellieve they won WGI in the early 90's (92 or 93 maybe? somebody can correct me if I'm wrong on this) I don't know if they have any old school cavie boys teaching them, but they are from Chicago. Personally I don't think they got near the score they deserved in movement. That's right... hahaha... I thought the old school team deserved a higher score in dance. Seriously, they had this really cool hip hop thing in the middle of their show that was way under appreciated, IMO. Those of you lamenting the days of old would really like this group. As fas as I know, they usually perform at the WGI midwest regional and WGI finals every year, so maybe check out one of those shows next winter if you're interested. They were also in that movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

ok... wow this was long. i'm done now. go ahead, flame away! :P

[SBrancheau]

Corps 9499:

You don't have a signature, so I don't know what your level of performance is...can we have a mini resume?

I like to be well-informed before I flame someone good and proper... :P

Just kidding!

Seriously, I would like to know your background in guard, etc. It's helps the rest of us to know where you're coming from. I'll wait for that before I comment on your post.

[byline]

I chose the third option. When guards place less emphasis on equipment work and more on dance, that's when I start to lose interest. After all, if I want to see that much dance, I can go watch a dance troupe perform.

[SBrancheau]

I chose the third option. When guards place less emphasis on equipment work and more on dance, that's when I start to lose interest. After all, if I want to see that much dance, I can go watch a dance troupe perform.

nodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnods

[LancerFi]

I chose the third option. When guards place less emphasis on equipment work and more on dance, that's when I start to lose interest. After all, if I want to see that much dance, I can go watch a dance troupe perform.

nodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnodsnods

StandingO,StandingO,StandingO

[deftguy]

I argue that what makes color guard interesting is that you are trying to accomplish body (dance), equipment and movement (drill) while projecting intellectual, aestethic and emotional effects. When you do all six of those things at the same time (combining both the performance and GE triads)-- now you are talking some hard ####.

You could have said all of this in one word. FLUFF. This sounds like the mantra to a broadway play, not colorguard. Emotion does not make it to the press box. Can you explain to me how to project intellectual and emotional effects that are visible to someone sitting in the pressbox. Or even 30 rows from the field.

I think we lose some of the WOW factor by design and training... intentionally

I do not agree with this statement at all. The wow factor is gone because what is being done is not exciting. Pretty perhaps, but not exciting. We were well trained and still acheived the WOW factor.

another thing-- you can all stop bashing ballet on the field. from what I've seen most of today's guards base their dance programs on modern dance not ballet. i could go into a long lengthy discussion about the difference, however I really doubt most of you would care

I do understand the difference between the two, however neither of them are visually effective on the field. So you point may be lost with this fact. Now for winterguard, totally apropriate and visually effective.

Corps,

There is no need to flame. Everyone has a opinion about colorguard and what they should be doing. However, I am lost most of the time watching what guards today do. 70% of the dance moves are lost on the field. The colorguard integration in most shows is disjointed and appears to be an after thought. Moves are not being done uniformly. Catches are not clean, and what is the point of most guards using sabres and rifles? They don't spin them, they pose with them.

When it takes one to get a degree in dance just to make the colorguard, its not colorguard anymore. Its a dance team with props. Why the emotional faces, emoting, projecting intellectual and asthetic effects if only your caption head and the first three rows actually see it? That is a waste of energy, energy that is better spent using your equipment which is more visually effective. Movement is only good when it is integrated within the equipment work. Dance on the field is a waste, modern or not.

[vintage rifle]

Join me on a trip down memory lane.....(sorry)

We showed up at west coast winter guard in either 75 or 76. The other guards were in great sparkly costumes, doing dance moves, and , OMG, the had recorded music. We hand never seen that in our whole hick lives. We knew we were dead because we had on our normal summer corps uniforms (boots too...what is it that some of you have with the boots?????)

and no music- just the rhythm of marching and equipment.

Anyway, we knew we were toast. The B guard went out and did their show. The crowd went nuts. The A guard went out . The crowd went nuts. Both guards won every single caption and award in sight.

Point? The more things change........

Even then we saw this change coming. Ok , fine, it was entertaining. It couldn't stand up to precision and equipment work.

I'm not suggesting we return to the 70's for crying out loud. But, from the stands dance looks sloppy, and most I don't want kids to see. When the guard dances, they disappear. All anyone sees are tosses....there is a lot out there that is cool without being a 6 or 7.

All things will eventuallly ballance themselves. Maybe guard will to, but I sure would like some guard show their unique tallents, not their assessets.

guard member/instructor for 32 years.