How do you want your guard?

[GMichael1230]

Andy,

Great post. You raise some valid points and have some great ideas.

First off, let me say.....While I'm "picking apart" the guards of today, it is due to the fact of the topic at hand. You can find in many of my posts the good things I do have to say about the guards of today.

I would never defend blindly my "era" just because..that would be ignorance and I haven't blindly defended anything.

You raise a point regarding drill. To some extent you are correct, deman has grown in areas of drill. However, it has also increased in Brass and percussion, yet, their execution and technique have NOT suffered...in some cases they have gotten even more demanding.

The bottom line in that respect ?? It doesnt matter, for the most part, what you do but at least have the desire to present it cleanly, uniformly, and with rerspect to the show you are trying to enhance. There is no reason or justification for a guard of 30 people to be running about or dashing across the field because it "fits" the music. That is a cop-out

Dance does not enhance a drum corps show, not at all. It fits within the confines of a program that utilizes much equipment work, but as the main tool of storytelling and/or colorguard...it's just awful. Mainly because unlike Blue Devils/Cadets/Crown....and a few others, there is no technique and challenge to the material being presented ie: forced down the spectators throats. Dance doesn't add an imteresting aspect to the activity...it changes the activity and destroys the integrity of the activity.

You mention 88 Suncoast amd what wouldhappen if someone did a show like that today ....are you kidding ?? Pease, by all means...bring back tricks, execution, solid, abundant work, very few dance moves and hardly any props at all......just watched again to make sure, and yup, tricks, execution and no props...where are these props you mentioned ?? And..it was inovative, it was ground breaking....theres nothing sticking in the minds of people today..that is the sad truth. All guards are melding into one giant predictable unit.

As far as winteguard goes, thats a whole 'nother animal. I think Flo marched Raiders....thats a guard where execution and clarity combined with solid reptoire and demand, merge together to creat excitement !! did I say that ??? Yup, it's true......you have 50 summer guards that pay that much attention to detail and you will find alot of us "old schoolers" (I hate that term) zipping our trap and leaping to our feet. How you do it is alot more relevant that what you do...sadly both of those ideas are being neglected.

Ironically it is because our guard and drum corps arent doing the little things, like they did 20 years ago, that our activity is in the state it is in. Pay attention to detail, instil basics, etchics and ...worry about the little things......the rest will follow....you want to add dance ?? make it clean and effective, dont just put it in to try and cover ground or because you can't come up with something that fits. And Andy, just curious, Isn't taking a side you were "born into" exactly what you are doing ?? I mean, how old are you?(seriously,not mocking) I've been through both ..I've lived both sides, many of us have......have you ?

~G~

[eemuam]

True... I agree with most of the points you made regarding things I brought up. And you got me on the "born into" thing. :) My whole thing is that it isn't the dance that is hurting the activity. I really like dance in guard... and I know many of you don't and that is opinion. I think there are a few different points being debated. I agree that many groups don't have the basics down before they move on to different levels of skills. I believe that is true in many activities... just watch YMCA basketball... kids are trying to dunk before than can shoot a free throw. I won't arge that point because I agree. But I don't think that deficiency is a result of dance being added to guard. I think dance can be a great addition... it just needs to be clean and done properly. So I think we agree on half of the debate... things need to be cleaner in the activity as a whole (some groups are doing it well). I think the other half we will have to just agree to disagree about and realize that we love the activity and arguing about it is just part of the game.

Andy

p.s. G... the thing with 88 Suncoast is more relative to the time. I look at that show and see costumes, theatrics, dance, and some props (used to enhance the story and change costumes (not uniforms)) and I see a guard that does many of the things a lot of you criticize. And a note... I love that show along with all of those great Suncoast shows... how about those hornlines too!!! WHEW! Take care.

[RobH]

I think what's being said here is all good - even the disagreements!

What I believe everyone is trying to say here is that some of us see the guard as "detached" from the rest of the show, or whatever it is the guard is doing can detract instead of enhance a show, and much of the "running around" on the field may or may not be a good thing.

Eye of the beholder, I suppose!

But whatever a guard does, it should be CLEAN, it should be PRECISE, it should be EXECUTED properly, it should be in SYNCHRONICITY with the entire show, it should COMPLIMENT the show, and it should WOW the crowd!

......not bad for a non guard guy with a big league hangover if I do say so myself.........

b**bs

[SBrancheau]

But whatever a guard does, it should be CLEAN, it should be PRECISE, it should be EXECUTED properly, it should be in SYNCHRONICITY with the entire show, it should COMPLIMENT the show, and it should WOW the crowd!

I think I'm in love...

[RobH]

Sally you crack me up!

[GMichael1230]

True... I agree with most of the points you made regarding things I brought up.  And you got me on the "born into" thing.  :) 

 

Andy

p.s. G... the thing with 88 Suncoast is more relative to the time.  I look at that show and see costumes, theatrics, dance, and some props (used to enhance the story and change costumes (not uniforms)) and I see a guard that does many of the things a lot of you criticize.  And a note... I love that show along with all of those great Suncoast shows... how about those hornlines too!!! WHEW!  Take care.

LOL...I didnt mean to "get" you at all !! Maybe it sounds harsher than it is meant to be but I actually wanted to know......no biggie, as you and I have discussed this privately !! And sorry, if It sounded rude.

88 Suncoast, after watching it again after a long time, wow !! what great ensemble flag work, and the rifle line ?? Again, the birth of todays colorguards, only to be taken out of its infancy stage in 1989 by the same guard (along with Cadets) There was alot of "dancing" and "role palying" in the 88 show, more than I remembered...I cringed a little when reviewing it for this thread but then I realized that ...it was done right, ...and it fit the show...I guess that is the bottom line.

When I think of Suncoast Sound, the first thing that comes to my mind is their awesome Brass line. Awesome arrangements, and excellent total sound. I think Robert Smith broke ground in arranging in regards to Suncoast Sound...and (to get back on topic) If only the guards of 1984-1986 were up to par with the rest of the corps, they coulda been unstoppable.......

~G~

Edited May 2, 2003 by GMichael1230

[wheelerand]

I voted for the fourth one. I agree with those who have said that equipment work on the field is visually more appealing and easier to see than dance. Unless you're viewing a show with binoculars (in which case, you're missing most of the show), much of the dance seems to me to be lost. Also, I have always felt that most of the time, the equipment work tends to support the overall show better, while much of the dance work tends to be a show unto itself and really divides the attention. That said, I'm not a big fan of "90% equipment, 10% dance" or anything like that. The point is well taken that the guard work should be what the show calls for - but I think that is often in the eyes of the interpreter. I have come to appreciate more of the dance work over the last couple of years (my first of watching drum corps after having marched in HS over 20 years ago). But I think more attention should be given to the effect that the dance produces for the crowd. In most of the shows that I have seen, the dance work has not, IMO, been as effective as the equipment work in contributing to the show.

I will say this, for those portions of the show that are dance, to me, a well-done dance drill is a drill that has the guard members doing stuff in unison. I really hate it when each guard member - or small groups of guard members - is off doing their own thing. Lots of running around to positions, nothing being done in time or in unison. Very distracting, very disjointed. Many of the guard shows I've seen come off to me as though the design was never finished, like the designer couldn't figure out how to get the guard from one place to another, so he just had them running around until they ended up in the right place. If dance is well done and well coordinated, I don't have a problem with it as long as that's not all there is.

As for costumes, a big fat no on that one. I've never understood why corps that scratch for money every year somehow feel it necessary to buy brand new guard uni's each year. Match the corps, don't try to do something different from every show. That's not to say the uni's should be basically the "corps uniforms with skirts" like they used to be back in the 70's. I don't have a problem with that, but it's not a requirement. But the uni's should complement the corps uni's and should remain the same from year to year, until the corps changes. Mandarins last year is a great example. The guard uni's were not the same as the corps uni's, but they complemented well, extending the corps uni's. Having the guard wear completely different uni's from the rest of the corps reinforces the idea that there are two different shows going on out there. Have I said this before? I prefer one, coordinated, flowing show.

Props. I'm not a big fan of props, although I've seen them done well on occasion. Marion Glory Cadets had a good prop thing going last year, IMO. Bandettes did a good job with their "box" made of plywood. I suppose you'd say these were not specifically guard props. Unlike some others, I wasn't a big fan of the SCV guard props last year, but maybe if I'd seen the show more times I'd have grown accustomed to them. I thought the Cavies did a good job with the pipe props - they had their place, they contributed to the theme, but they did not dominate the show. I guess I like props if they contribute to the show without becoming a focal point; when they begin to take the focus away from the corps and the guard members (aka, Cadets last year, IMO), then I feel it's overdone.

I guess that the overall theme to how I feel about all of this stuff is that it's good when it contributes to the sense of one cohesive show taking place and bad when it makes it look like there are multiple shows taking place. It's good when things are done in unison and bad when they're done individually or in small groups. It's good when it can be seen and appreciated by the audience and not so good when you'd have to have binoculars to tell what's going on. IN GENERAL, that means to me, mostly equipment work with some dance but done in unison, no special guard costumes each year, and minimal props that contribute to the flow of the show without becoming a focal point.

--Andrew

[Orpheus]

If dance is well done and well coordinated, I don't have a problem with it as long as that's not all there is.

...

I guess that the overall theme to how I feel about all of this stuff is that it's good when it contributes to the sense of one cohesive show taking place and bad when it makes it look like there are multiple shows taking place. It's good when things are done in unison and bad when they're done individually or in small groups.

Kewl. Great post, Andrew. -- I agree with almost everything he said.

(Except that I do like thematic costumes if they're tasteful, attractive, and fit the show.)

[zackiedude]

Hello! I'm kinda new to color guard, so let me apologize in advance for any ignorant comments I may make :) . Anyhoo... I think that a mix of both dance and equipment is best. I chose number three because being color guard, if there is an emphasis it should be on equipment (and number two had lots of props -_- ).

I think that amazing color guard "tricks" as they may be called can have an AMAZING crowd reaction and they look absolutely great! I don't know if they've been brought up on this topic yet, but South Shore Drill Team competes at WGI and does poorly but I think they the greatest crowd reaction of any unit there. Where else do you see a group willing to toss sixes, somersault over each other and catch each other's rifles? That looks great and its fun to watch. They may not have tons of dance, but watching these sorts of tricks just thrills me.

Watching pure ballet and modern dance also thrills me. The fact that some people have so much control over their body is amazing! I can watch people dance for hours and just marvel at the fact that both their bodies can do what they do and they can make it look so easy.

Now, recently I have been introduced to both heavy dance and hard tricks. Now, I think looking flawless as one "floats" across the room is just as hard as tossing a 5 and catching it behind your back. But what I think is even harder than both of those is incorporating the two of them together! Now THAT is some hard !@#$.

And I think that's what guards of today are trying to do. They're trying to incorporate dance AND work because its harder than either of them seperately. It may not have the same crowd appeal or affect, but its pushing the activity to another extreme. Sure, some guards may dance semi-well all the time without equipment and personally, I think that can get boring. However, most people realize when this happens and realize that they aren't on the same level as other guards who "dance under their equipment" so to speak.

Okay, anyhoo, I think I've rambled enough and my thoughts really didn't flow well so hopefully you can digest that :). Thanks ahead of time for listening.

-Zack

[deftguy]

Where else do you see a group willing to toss sixes, somersault over each other and catch each other's rifles?

Whomever instructs this guard has got to have been a former Cavalier. We were doing this kind of stuff on the field in the early eighties. Definately my kind of Guard!!! :)

Edited May 4, 2003 by deftguy