Matt_S Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 that statement right there helps kill some of the logic used for it's passage I think you, and kusankusho, missed the main point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I explained it poorly? I'll try again. I didn't become a fan of drum corps solely because of grounded pits, or Bb brass, or any of the building blocks that the corps use to create their shows. I became a fan because I liked what I saw being performed in front of me on the field. If I didn't like the shows I was seeing, then it wouldn't matter a #### to me whether the show was created with a ground pit or not, or with brass in Bb or G. (I suspect that's true of everyone, if you think about it, because if the building blocks were all that mattered then wouldn't we be fans of every show out there? After all, every corps in DCI uses the same instrumentation.) I expect the same for those that are introduced to the activity for the first time. They won't have any sense of history. They won't care whether it's the first year for electronics or if they've been used for decades. They won't care that drum corps had been acoustic up to the point in time. All they will care about is whether or not they enjoy something which they are experiencing for the first time. It's silly to think of the addition of electronics as breaking down some mythical barrier and opening the flood of people who know what drum corps is but refused to give DCI a chance until electronics were allowed - which is the mental picture I get whenever I hear talk of electronics and bringing in new fans. Rather, the question to ask when it comes to new fans is the same as it always has been. Will these people watching a show for the first time enjoy what they see or not? Most people marching in competitive corps-style shows today couldn't imagine marching a strictly symmetrical drillbook, or couldn't imagine marching the bells and chimes we now see in the pit (remember the snickers in your theater when 27th Lancers were shown on the Classic Countdown?). Each of the changes to drum corps in past has had its share of detractors, yet the activity has survived the adoption of those changes and drawn in new fans and members who take those changes for granted. I suspect that in ten to fifteen years, maybe less, those marching in drum corps will take the presence of electronics for granted as well. In the short term, it's tough to argue for the necessity of electronics. We just saw Phantom Regiment blow everyone away with a show without them, didn't we? But we also saw Phantom Regiment blow everyone away with a grounded pit, asymmetrical drill, Bb brass, guard members wearing outfits that were different from the corps proper, a show didn't start from the endline, didn't finish on the opposite endline, didn't have a concert number, didn't require an inspection, and didn't display the colors in any way at all. All of these are changes that are now taken for granted. Give the perspective of time, I have a feeling that fans both new and old will eventually take electronic instruments for granted as well, as they stand and cheer for shows like Phantom Regiment's remarkable 2022 show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Actually, yeah. I don't listen to or watch many shows from before circa 1993 or 1995 or so. Umm. Try to? Thanks. I'll remember that advice next time you tell DCP that you find G hornlines more entertaining than hornlines pitched in Bb, or how much you can't stand narration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Uhhhhh, no. I can vividly remember the first time I saw the Blue Devils, Garfield Cadets and Santa Clara way back in the day. If they had performed with a woodwind section or electronics or whatever IN ADDITION to all the great things they were doing already, I still would have been chomping at the bit to be a part of it. And I'm being 100% honest when I say that...it was the excellence that drew me to it. It was like what I already knew from marching band but it was soooooo much more attractive to me because they were so dang good at it. Certainly a million times better than anything I had ever seen or participated in. Now don't get me wrong...I didn't object that those things were excluded, by any means. But the fact that they WERE excluded did absolutely nothing to compel me to want to be a part of it. Yep, that's the way it was for me, and the point I was trying to get across. I think some are approaching this point with the perspective that comes from having already been a fan for several decades, rather than the perspective of someone seeing a show for the first time and with no notion of the history of the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I think you, and kusankusho, missed the main point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I explained it poorly? I'll try again. I didn't become a fan of drum corps solely because of grounded pits, or Bb brass, or any of the building blocks that the corps use to create their shows. I became a fan because I liked what I saw being performed in front of me on the field. If I didn't like the shows I was seeing, then it wouldn't matter a #### to me whether the show was created with a ground pit or not, or with brass in Bb or G. (I suspect that's true of everyone, if you think about it, because if the building blocks were all that mattered then wouldn't we be fans of every show out there? After all, every corps in DCI uses the same instrumentation.) I expect the same for those that are introduced to the activity for the first time. They won't have any sense of history. They won't care whether it's the first year for electronics or if they've been used for decades. They won't care that drum corps had been acoustic up to the point in time. All they will care about is whether or not they enjoy something which they are experiencing for the first time. It's silly to think of the addition of electronics as breaking down some mythical barrier and opening the flood of people who know what drum corps is but refused to give DCI a chance until electronics were allowed - which is the mental picture I get whenever I hear talk of electronics and bringing in new fans. Rather, the question to ask when it comes to new fans is the same as it always has been. Will these people watching a show for the first time enjoy what they see or not? Most people marching in competitive corps-style shows today couldn't imagine marching a strictly symmetrical drillbook, or couldn't imagine marching the bells and chimes we now see in the pit (remember the snickers in your theater when 27th Lancers were shown on the Classic Countdown?). Each of the changes to drum corps in past has had its share of detractors, yet the activity has survived the adoption of those changes and drawn in new fans and members who take those changes for granted. I suspect that in ten to fifteen years, maybe less, those marching in drum corps will take the presence of electronics for granted as well. In the short term, it's tough to argue for the necessity of electronics. We just saw Phantom Regiment blow everyone away with a show without them, didn't we? But we also saw Phantom Regiment blow everyone away with a grounded pit, asymmetrical drill, Bb brass, guard members wearing outfits that were different from the corps proper, a show didn't start from the endline, didn't finish on the opposite endline, didn't have a concert number, didn't require an inspection, and didn't display the colors in any way at all. All of these are changes that are now taken for granted. Give the perspective of time, I have a feeling that fans both new and old will eventually take electronic instruments for granted as well, as they stand and cheer for shows like Phantom Regiment's remarkable 2022 show. i know exactly what you were saying. i quoted what I did because that one sentence there kills part of the rationale DCI used to get it passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Thanks. I'll remember that advice next time you tell DCP that you find G hornlines more entertaining than hornlines pitched in Bb, or how much you can't stand narration. What is that supposed to mean? And why is it that you don't often enjoy shows prior to 1993 but do enjoy those after 1995? What exactly changed between those years? The point I was trying make is that if you enjoy those post-1995 shows like you say you do, I see no reason why you wouldn't enjoy shows from the earlier part of that decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 After all, every corps in DCI uses the same instrumentation. Some are still on G bugles, and Bluecoats have a flugelhorn line this year, so no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 i know exactly what you were saying. i quoted what I did because that one sentence there kills part of the rationale DCI used to get it passed. What rationale did DCI use, and how did my sentence kill it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 What is that supposed to mean?And why is it that you don't often enjoy shows prior to 1993 but do enjoy those after 1995? What exactly changed between those years? The point I was trying make is that if you enjoy those post-1995 shows like you say you do, I see no reason why you wouldn't enjoy shows from the earlier part of that decade. You acted like since he doesn't like pre 1993 shows, he must not have listened to them, which is absurd. To use the same logic, since you hate so many things, it would be just as absurd to assume you haven't listened to them. In short, you open yourself up to absurdity when you post absurd things. But that's the path you like to walk, so own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 What rationale did DCI use, and how did my sentence kill it? everything since amps was proposed has included passages about how allowing all of these wonderful new toys will help draw in more fans, and in some cases the phrase make drum corps more mainstream was used. so you saying that these new rules arent bringing in people just pokes one more hole in the balloon used to get this stuff passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 oops wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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