Frameworks Effect...

[NV82]

To me, the most significant aspect of the Cavaliers of the 2000's has been the utter vapidity of their shows. Dazzling to the eye, brilliant achievements in musical and visual execution, but ultimately pointless and superficial. Brimming with flash and style but devoid of substance. (Maybe that explains of the appeal to HS bandos.) Niagara Falls made some interesting points, and Samurai was actually pretty compelling, but in between those years: pop tunes and ambient drum corps music. Fortunately, I don't think many corps have aspired to the same heights of vapidity and irrelevance as the Cavaliers, though a few other corps have found ways to be vapid in their own unique way.

As a long time drum corps fan and parent every now and then I put on my emotional armor and venture into DCP knowing there will be posts like this. Why is it that in every question posed for debate with the best of intentions someone finds the need to be mean spirited? To imply the Cavaliers or ANY DCI Corps is dull or tasteless is nothing more than name calling….. I don’t mind a good debate if the opposing arguments are well thought out and have merit, but this void of any relevance at all other than to be cruel.

No one can argue the ability of The Cavaliers to capture an audience. And if that audience is primarily “HS bandos” that’s great! The drum corps activity needs to continuously generate new fans and prospective corps members for survival and growth. I have attended all three days of finals for years and although I don’t claim to know the exact demographic of the audiences, I would place an educated wager the majority are performers families and former marching members with their families.

And so in answer to the original questions, did The Cavaliers change the direction of show design, I don’t know, only the actual show designers could answer that question definitively. But what I do know is as an audience member those early 2000’s Cavaliers shows left me with a hunger for more! Let’s give corps like The Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Blue Devils and Cadets their due credit for taking risks and continuously raising the bar to keep us returning year after year.

[cowtown]

Willie85 just fails to fully grasp the intellectual depth of Spin Cycle. That’s why he thinks it’s vapid. The justifications of the ‘popcorn’ move was finally explained 4 years later when they did it again in the Billy Joel Show. It’s about life knocking you down and getting back up again. Now if you put that in context of Spin Cycle, you’ll understand it’s about getting your clothes their cleanest without fading their colors. It works on so many levels. I can’t tell you how many times while watching my clothes dry I thought to myself ‘this’ should be on the field. And who better than the Green Machine to do the Washing Machine move? And to top it off, the guard wore Cycling uniforms, you know for Spin Cycle? Just thinking about it now has me pumping my fist in the air screaming ‘I love laundry'.

[Lance]

I don't agree with calling any Cavies show "vapid," but I also don't agree with calling anybody else intellectually incapable of fully grasping "the depth" of a marching band show, whether it be Spin Cycle or anything else.

Intellectual depth? Come on now. lol.

I'm thinking cowtown was being ironic? I hope?

[NV82]

Willie85 just fails to fully grasp the intellectual depth of Spin Cycle. That’s why he thinks it’s vapid. The justifications of the ‘popcorn’ move was finally explained 4 years later when they did it again in the Billy Joel Show. It’s about life knocking you down and getting back up again. Now if you put that in context of Spin Cycle, you’ll understand it’s about getting your clothes their cleanest without fading their colors. It works on so many levels. I can’t tell you how many times while watching my clothes dry I thought to myself ‘this’ should be on the field. And who better than the Green Machine to do the Washing Machine move? And to top it off, the guard wore Cycling uniforms, you know for Spin Cycle? Just thinking about it now has me pumping my fist in the air screaming ‘I love laundry'.

Well maybe he’ll have a greater appreciation of this year’s show portraying the principal high elevation hydrological divide of watersheds. Really, how much more intellectual depth could you ask for! Just thinking about it now has me pumping my fist in the air screaming ‘I love drainage basin management’.

Vapid? I think not!

[jpaul]

For one, it seems like every percussion feature now has to also have the hornline in a block doing some sort of body movement. It's a shame, because it draws people's attention away from what they should be focusing on, the drumline during their feature. People can only look at one thing at a time...

People can also choose what they prefer to watch.

It is much more common now to see original music and I accredit a lot of that to Dick Saucedo and the Cavaliers. Also, I don't know if Cavaliers were doing better "body" or whatever you want to call it... but they were making it look cool. There are tons of corps and bands that do "band body" or "movement" and it is sometimes fitting of the music but it usually just looks awkward and like they are wanted to get rewarded for simultaneous responsibilities. The Cavaliers really owned this one and make it look cool to do movement in your show.

They've expanded the drum corps definitions of visual design and visual performance. Earlier corps did various types of movement, but The Cavaliers have taken it to a new level.

The thing I noticed most in music arranging after 2002 was a steady decline in the number of shows I could bear to just listen to across the board in DCI.

I think that's an unfair standard to judge by. Shows are not designed to be "just listened to," they're meant to be experienced in their totality.

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. It's not about marching geometric drill. It's not about a certain type of brass playing. It's not about original music or fight clubs or any of that. Their success and their impact has hinged on the total audio/visual coordination of the product. Sure, other championship corps have done this too, to varying degrees of success, but I've never seen anything like what they've done during their run. Nearly every single year, I'm left walking away saying that they have the best coordinated product on the field. Every audio/visual effect maximized, no bad transitions, perfect staging of elements and audio/visual focus. This is not to say they are without their faults, but one can say the same for any championship corps, even those who have made the biggest impacts over the years. Regardless, nobody can deny that their consistency over the past ten years has been more than impressive.

I agree.

[jpaul]

I disagree that visual overrides musical in the modern era, as you asserted. I believe instead that visual finally started to receive as much attention as did musical within the design process. For those like yourself who believe visual only exists to support the music, or for those who came up at an earlier time in the history of drum and bugle corps when music was king, I don't doubt that this increased attention feels overbearing at times. After all, its different than what you are accustomed to. For someone like myself however, who came to the activity just ten years ago, this notion is easier to take.

I agree. (and I've been around way more than 10 years.)

total package...Cadets 83, Mass

Brilliant and groundbreaking for it's time. While some elements could be considered comparable to today's corps, the "total package" has been far surpassed IMO.

Bond was the closest since 2001. But you're right.,...they even did the feature on ESPN about the drill coming first, then asking the drum guy for x more counts of music to fit it. it should go hand in hand

Let's put this myth to rest. In that clip the discussion is about extending a musical idea that had already been arranged to give time for a visual idea to be implemented. I've heard from Michael Gaines himself that he never writes drill before the music is arranged. I'm sure there are discussions about both musical and visual ideas in the development stages, but dots don't hit paper (or computer screen) until the music is written.

To me, the most significant aspect of the Cavaliers of the 2000's has been the utter vapidity of their shows. Dazzling to the eye, brilliant achievements in musical and visual execution, but ultimately pointless and superficial. Brimming with flash and style but devoid of substance.

What, in your view, constitutes worthy substance for a drum corps show?

[jpaul]

I have been under the impression (and certainly feel from viewing the shows in question) that the design was more of a shared overall timeline/storyboard of effect points and that the music and drill were written/arranged to fit that storyboard.

Sounds about right. What is it that you see as a problem here?

I have no qualms with extending a phrase or musical thought here or there to optimize a desired visual effect. However, to me, if you try to do both at once you lose connection with the listener/viewer. That is because I am a musically-driven audience member. I am sure some people would be content to watch drum corps DVDs with no sound, but that is not for me. When the sound and visual are truly integrated, I believe one has to lead each thought and the other has to extend/embellish it. If you try to start with both a chicken and an egg, you get confusion.

Why can't the music be the lead some times, the visual be the lead sometimes, and they work as equal partners sometimes? I don't understand why the music always has to be the focal point. (And who watches drum corps DVDs with the sound off?)

It is, however, entirely possible that I need to develop a better-informed view of this design approach. But currently, when I watch, I find I am not even really noticing what is being played. Maybe that was the intent. If so, it certainly works on me. Maybe I should just be caught up in the overall package and not have one thing stand out. Except the visual does stand out. I don't know. I find I cannot clearly articulate what makes it not feel right.

It seems that maybe your dissatisfied because the one aspect of the art form that you prefer isn't giving you what you want so you feel frustrated. One of the things I love about a drum corps show is that I can take in the "overall package" and see what intrigues me. It doesn't need to be one thing or the other. It could be either or both. If I don't want to watch the drummers play their feature there's usually something cool going on somewhere else on the field. If nothing visual catches my attention, I'll enjoy the music. I try to take what each corps presents and find things to like about it.

Well maybe he’ll have a greater appreciation of this year’s show portraying the principal high elevation hydrological divide of watersheds. Really, how much more intellectual depth could you ask for! Just thinking about it now has me pumping my fist in the air screaming ‘I love drainage basin management’.

Vapid? I think not!

Love it!

[Lance]

I think that's an unfair standard to judge by. Shows are not designed to be "just listened to," they're meant to be experienced in their totality.

I agree.

Nevertheless, since 2002, the number of shows I can just listen to per year has gone down (used to be around 6, now it's just a couple), while the number of shows that I can bear to watch and listen to has stayed about the same (about 8).

I know not everybody's in the same boat with me, but I can really only speak for myself.

[hrnguy500]

Nevertheless, since 2002, the number of shows I can just listen to per year has gone down (used to be around 6, now it's just a couple), while the number of shows that I can bear to watch and listen to has stayed about the same (about 8).

I know not everybody's in the same boat with me, but I can really only speak for myself.

Is the for World Class? Strictly top 12 by chance? Just curious.

[Lance]

Top 12 World Class. I don't listen to or watch enough Open Class corps. But, I'm working on it.