“Double Win” versus “Tie”

[SynthLine09]

You're right. . . .let's give it to all 1800 kids instead at Finals.

Sounds good to me :)

[NR_Ohiobando]

If it comes out as a tie, so be it. I see no problem with it. Judges call the shots, and if it's a tie then so be it. (Though the 99 and 00 ties feed my conspiracy theory side)

If you call it something else, it doesn't really make it any better. It's like the difference between "torture" and "enhanced interrogation"...

[hrnguy500]

In the end everyone marching can come away saying "I'm a winner" simply for the fact that they were able to compete.

HOWEVER....there is a growing mentality in our nation to "not hurt anyone's feeling" so everyone is a winner. (I see it in the schools all the time.) I'd rather lose like BD last year and know it, then tie and think 20 years later "if only we had done such and such we could have won." Its like playing a scale and stopping on the 7th (2nd to last note).

I'm not against ties in every circumstance. In some case, like chess, you cannot help but avoid draws sometimes. But can we tie in the Super Bowl? No. Same goes for most other sports in the world.

[rut-roh]

In the end everyone marching can come away saying "I'm a winner" simply for the fact that they were able to compete.

HOWEVER....there is a growing mentality in our nation to "not hurt anyone's feeling" so everyone is a winner. (I see it in the schools all the time.) I'd rather lose like BD last year and know it, then tie and think 20 years later "if only we had done such and such we could have won." Its like playing a scale and stopping on the 7th (2nd to last note).

I'm not against ties in every circumstance. In some case, like chess, you cannot help but avoid draws sometimes. But can we tie in the Super Bowl? No. Same goes for most other sports in the world.

Well, if drum corps was a sport, then you'd have an argument. But it's not. And ties have happened in drum corps since they started keeping score. Nobody is trying to spare anyone's feeling by there being ties in drum corps. That's just the way the numbers work out. It happens.

[MikeD]

You're right. . . .let's give it to all 1800 kids instead at Finals.

If by some stretch all of the corps achieved the same exact score...fine.

I am glad this thread came up, actually, since there are so many posts attacking me for blindly supporting DCI.

I happen to think the tie-breaker rule was a TERRIBLE rule. A total score is a total score...if two corps earn that score, than both win. That's MHO.

[MikeD]

In the end everyone marching can come away saying "I'm a winner" simply for the fact that they were able to compete.

HOWEVER....there is a growing mentality in our nation to "not hurt anyone's feeling" so everyone is a winner. (I see it in the schools all the time.) I'd rather lose like BD last year and know it, then tie and think 20 years later "if only we had done such and such we could have won." Its like playing a scale and stopping on the 7th (2nd to last note).

I'm not against ties in every circumstance. In some case, like chess, you cannot help but avoid draws sometimes. But can we tie in the Super Bowl? No. Same goes for most other sports in the world.

But BD did not tie PR, so there was no issue at all in 2008. How about two corps that did actually tie after all the numbers were added up? Why should one of the two corps with the highest score be placed in second place? They achieved the same score...and it was the highes score.

[Liam]

If by some stretch all of the corps achieved the same exact score...fine.

I am glad this thread came up, actually, since there are so many posts attacking me for blindly supporting DCI.

I happen to think the tie-breaker rule was a TERRIBLE rule. A total score is a total score...if two corps earn that score, than both win. That's MHO.

Yes, but I do think it was a good idea to go to hundredths of points instead of tenths to minimize ties. It's like in skiing or other timed events -- go to as minute a measuring level as you reasonably can, but then if it's a tie, it's a tie.

Regardless, the rules are spelled out in advance and everyone is aware of the rules. Some sports/competitions have tie-breakers, other do not. Makes no nevermind to me -- I usually don't give a hoot what the judges think, anyway ...

[Keith Laubhan]

I'm not against ties in every circumstance. In some case, like chess, you cannot help but avoid draws sometimes. But can we tie in the Super Bowl? No. Same goes for most other sports in the world.

The difference, though, at least in my opinion, is that in the Super Bowl, you've got two opposing teams that affect each other's performance.

Drum corps is an offense only sport... you can't impede your opponent's progress with defense. Every corps puts up their best scores (or at least tries), and then a panel of judges independently assign numbers through predetirmined criteria. If a tie happens, it's not a cop out, it's not a participation award- it's a coincidence that happens to yield more champions, which I don't see as a bad thing at all.

I love competition, don't get me wrong. It's a reason I became passionate about the activity. But if two corps end up crossing the finish line at the exact same time, as it were, I've got no problems congratulating both champions and regarding them as the best in the activity.

[Liam]

The difference, though, at least in my opinion, is that in the Super Bowl, you've got two opposing teams that affect each other's performance.

Drum corps is an offense only sport... you can't impede your opponent's progress with defense. Every corps puts up their best scores (or at least tries), and then a panel of judges independently assign numbers through predetirmined criteria. If a tie happens, it's not a cop out, it's not a participation award- it's a coincidence that happens to yield more champions, which I don't see as a bad thing at all.

I love competition, don't get me wrong. It's a reason I became passionate about the activity. But if two corps end up crossing the finish line at the exact same time, as it were, I've got no problems congratulating both champions and regarding them as the best in the activity.

Well golf is not a sport where you affect each other's performance and yet golf has tie breakers.

Stop trying to makes analogies to other sports/competitions to try and bolster the point on one side or the other. It's simply a case where some sports choose to have tie-breakers and others do not. DCI used to not, now they do. We can argue whether DCI should or should not based on personal preference, but trying to draw some analogys to other activities is pointless, imo.

[Keith Laubhan]

Well golf is not a sport where you affect each other's performance and yet golf has tie breakers.

Not true... golfers are keenly aware of their current standing, and it greatly influences their strategy. Down by a stroke on the 18? You're not going to be laying it up in a borderline situation.