soccerguy315 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) Absolutely.The coin-flipping is an exaggeration; the point is that a champion by decision is better than no winner at all, which is what I would argue most people regard a tie as. That's a matter of opinion, of course, but being present at ties that certainly seemed to be the prevailing opinion. so by announcing a tie, and then having the head judge flip a quarter, and announcing that one of the corps lost, more fans would be happy? I know you said coin flipping is an exaggeration, but any other arbitrary tie breaker would be the same. Edited June 3, 2009 by soccerguy315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Absurd based on what? You and I were at the same finals, and I didn't see a lot of people walking out of there happy with the results. Or did the "No more ties" chants not make it to the field? You're welcome to your own opinion on the subject, obviously, but I much prefer some form of decision making being available to none at all. Whether or not the 'form of decision' is based on anything remotely meaningful or not? As for people walking out...did you ask the corps members involved, one of whom is posting in the thread...they are the ones who count the most. How can one 95.6 be better than another 95.6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 so by announcing a tie, and then having the head judge flip a quarter, and announcing that one of the corps lost, more fans would be happy?I know you said coin flipping is an exaggeration, but any other arbitrary tie breaker would be the same. No, it wouldn't. By your definition it's arbitrary; by my definition (and apparently, DCI's for several years) there's nothing arbitrary about looking at ordinals or some other issue relating to the score and determining a winner from that. On the contrary, it's perfectly logical in the scheme of determining score. Let's not seize on an exaggeration for a point as though it's the main issue; it's not. My point is simply, as I have said, that a winner by decision is far superior to a tie any day of the week, especially on the second Saturday in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbevillekid26 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 If corps have a tie in a specific caption for finals week, is there a tiebreaker for who wins...like one of the subcaptions becomes magically more important than it was before anybody realized there was a tie? That's stupid to me.When taking whole corps performances, it's arbitrary to just decide to take certain caption scores and suddenly weight them differently if there's a tie. If you're going to have a tiebreaker for a performance that is tied, then there should be a playoff, not some arbitrary caption score magically becoming a "tiebreaker." That's stupid to me. Certainly stupider than any argument about just letting a tie stand. Putting all of the captions in a bag and randomly picking one to be the "tiebreaker" is slightly less stupid, but still stupid. If corps tie based on the scores of a bunch of different judges independently rating various different parts of the show, so be it. Totally agree. Who's to say what caption defines a true champion? I'm sure that varies from corps to corps and it's certainly not fair to say one corps' score is worth less because they don't see music as important as visual (just an example) as the other corps' identical score because they see music as being more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
From The Pressbox Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Playoffs!! Go Devils, Gregg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cadet Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I guess ties are okay for the marching members themselves. I think most fans started to get upset (chanting no more ties!!) when there were three ties in five years. And after two years in a row, it just started to seem... fishy. Especially when you consider that there are hardly ever ties during the rest of the season. To have those ties starting to become a trend, on finals night, for first place, it all just started to feel a bit... manufactured. Here is why I didn't like the tie trend. DCI sells finals night tickets essentially promising to crown a world champion for the season on that very night. And those tickets are MUCH more expensive than the Thursday or Friday night seats. After my third tie, in a strange sort of way, I started to feel duped. Like I was paying extra money for this "one night only" event, and DCI couldn't seem to make up their mind. To me it kind of took away the hype and devalued the event itself. I started to ask myself "why am I still paying for Saturday night when there are more corps for less money on Friday?" I don't know, maybe I'm just weird. I know that ties ARE mathematically possible, but on finals night, only ONE champion should be crowned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrnguy500 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Just curious, does anyone know if ties are frequent in BOA or WGI? I've never been a part of either of those activities but I've never experienced a tie with my marching bands back in the day. I wonder if they were more frequent we wouldn't be so upset over the idea. Sort of like hockey can (used to) have ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-roh Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) It's not about "waking up champions" or kids feeling good, it's about fulfilling the purpose of the competition: to identify a champion. The purpose of the competition WAS fulfilled. And the end result was two corps arriving at the same highest score. Punishing one of them for arriving at the same total score is beyond ridiculous to me, whether it's been done before or whether other circuits do it or not. To further muddy up the waters, nobody seems to care if there is a tie for 3rd or 7th or 10th place. How would people feel, I wonder, if at semi-finals this year, two corps finished in a tie for 12th? All the sudden, I believe, this "ties are like kissing your sister" nonsense would fade away pretty quickly. I would even go so far as to say that on DCP, people would be celebrating the fact that we have 13 corps compete at the Saturday night show, and nary a soul would be clamoring for a tie-breaker. Even though the "purpose of the competition" was to put the top TWELVE corps into finals. Unless you'd like to be the one who tells one of those 12th place corps, sorry, even though your score was the same as their's, you're not making finals this year. Edited June 3, 2009 by rut-roh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You'll see ties every now and then in BOA. I think when you look at finals results across all regionals, you'll probably average one or two ties a year. BOA has always had GE as the tiebreaker - whichever corps recorded the highest GE will earn the higher placement. I can't recall off the top of my head any tie at the top, though, for Regionals or Nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrnguy500 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 good to know. I was wondering if they had tiebreakers. If I had to use a caption to break the tie I think I would use GE, but that is another debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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