Help me on the judging on Synths

[BRASSO]

This synth. business is all new to me. While I'm initially not immediately hostile to instrumentation change, I remain skeptical until proven that it adds a level of enjoyment to something I have long enjoyed. But I won't be totally close minded on this, just that it's an uphill battle for my support on this. But I won't join others just yet in calling for it's ban.

That said, can some posters add to my education on this with some answers to my questions re. the judging of synths ?

1) I assume that because it's a part of the battery, that the percussion judge will judge this. Am I right on this ?..... or wrong ?

2) if it's the percussion judge that judges this, how is it actually " judged " performance wise ? What are the characteristics one looks for between exemplary use of this instrumentation and/ or projection of sound, and mediocre to poor use of it ?

3) do most current DCI percussion judges have training and experience in synth ?

4) will any other DCI caption head judges be involved in the judging of synth such as perhaps GE judges ? What exactly are they judging ? Can you give us neophytes on this , what and who judges synth ? and do you feel confident that GE judges have had wide spread extensive experience and training with synth to be able to expertly judge synth ?

Thanks in advance.... this new instrumentation or way to project sound is all new to some of us and we'd like a primer........ and fast as the season begins this week.

Edited June 15, 2009 by BRASSO

[CoHmempho04]

I applaud you on your questioning. This is a really really good question that I now wonder myself.

[Lance]

It would make sense for it to be judged along with other pit instruments, but something tells me the answer to this might end up being the same answer we got as to how the effect of amplification is judged, which was:

*crickets*

[Jeff Ream]

1) its part of the pit.

2) at field level, really, the best you can do is discuss timing within the front ensemble and maybe if you hear bad notes. upstairs you'd be able to discuss volume/balance, timing within the big picture, ge would allow for discussion for how it helps with effects, etc

3) i'd imagine they do

4) other caption heads? you mean sheets outside of percussion? ge music, ensemble music.

[BRASSO]

1) its part of the pit.

2) at field level, really, the best you can do is discuss timing within the front ensemble and maybe if you hear bad notes. upstairs you'd be able to discuss volume/balance, timing within the big picture, ge would allow for discussion for how it helps with effects, etc

3) i'd imagine they do

4) other caption heads? you mean sheets outside of percussion? ge music, ensemble music.

It would seem to me that it is only logical to presume that judges that will be judging synth this year will be experts in this field, or at the very least have had extensive experience in performing in concert with synth themselves,, giving seminars on synth, teaching of synth in college or High School, etc.

Would I be correct on this ? ( or would I be too naive, too trusting right now, etc ? )

Edited June 15, 2009 by BRASSO

[Jeff Ream]

experts? i dont even think the people teaching the corps are full fledged experts on it.

but most of these judges have experience with it, either teaching or judging WGI, BOA etc, so I am sure it's not a foreign concept.

now will it get a free pass like amps at first? dunno. if we could get dci to release unedited judges tapes, we'd know for sure. if we see a review stating someone had serious issues and a recap that matches it ( like Bluecoats at East last year) i'd imagine that would help rpove it

[BRASSO]

experts? i dont even think the people teaching the corps are full fledged experts on it.

but most of these judges have experience with it, either teaching or judging WGI, BOA etc, so I am sure it's not a foreign concept.

now will it get a free pass like amps at first? dunno. if we could get dci to release unedited judges tapes, we'd know for sure. if we see a review stating someone had serious issues and a recap that matches it ( like Bluecoats at East last year) i'd imagine that would help rpove it

You make a fair and reasonable reply. I think it's fair to say we are in unchartered waters. I think it would be fair to say that judging was easier when it was just brass and percussion. Brass judges all played a Brass instrument, taught it, maybe worked for a Company that Manufactured it, wrote musical pieces for brass and so forth. Same with the percussion judges. They all marched and played percussion, taught it, composed it, and so forth.

But once we went into areas such as " Narration ", " Voice ", " Synth", etc it has opened the door to legitimate ( I think ) questions as to how these new entities are judged, and the background qualifications and experiences of judges that have the heavy responsibility to judge these new entities, especially when we look up in the booth and see judges that came out of the brass, percussion and guard almost exclusively in their training, experience and background.

For example, no doubt Maynard Ferguson would have been able to expertly judge a brass instrument competition given the criteria upon which to judge it.

Could Mr. Ferguson however have judged ( say ) " voice " ? In other words, did he have sufficient experience and training with vibretto, voice inflection, range, proper breathing and technique and all that goes into judging " Voice " in a show, particularly if the central soloist in a pivotal moment in the show utilized " voice " and not brass to convey to the audience a musical moment ? Would you agree with me that Mr. Ferguson if he were alive today would probably tell us that he would NOT be a good judge of " Voice " in a show ? If this is true, then wern't we asking our brass judges of late to do precisely what Mr. Ferguson would have never attempted to do ? Conversely, would we ask Luciano Pavarotti if he were alive today, to judge a Brass section in a cpmpetition comparing and contrasting the quality of the brass sections ?

And more up to date...... are we asking our DCI judges to perhaps judge synth when in reality, few of them have the experience and knowledge to effectively compare and contrast competing Corps use of synth ? Or am I just plain wrong and all these judges of Corps using synth have a lot of personal use with synth and know the ins and outs of it so well that they can judge synth the same way a brass judge can judge a brass instrument and a percussion judge can judge a percussive intrument ?

Edited June 15, 2009 by BRASSO

[crfrey71]

I think that amplification has been totally ignored, when it comes to judging. IMO, amplification and use of synths will go hand-in-hand, since their "intended" usage will be similar. Does a corps get "ticked" enough for when the amps are too loud or a synth is overpowering the rest of the corps? I am thinking maybe it will have an effect on the music ensemble scores and GE scores, if it is really judged closely.

For example, BD usually scores at the top in music ensemble. Last year, besides percussion score, they were lagging behind in the ensemble scores, as well. One thing that stood out to me was when the amped drumset would overpower the cool drumbreak on the field. That was very evident. Now did that ever get noticed in the judges tapes? Who knows? But the amped drumset was pretty much consistent throughout the summer (overpowering). So, it sounds to me it never got mentioned or rarely did or with not too much emphasis on it.

I don't think we have really perfected the amplification part and now we are introducing synths. I really think a corps should get hit hard in both ensemble and GE scores, if they can't properly balance the amps and synths with the sound of the corps marching on the field. This is my opinion, of course. But, that is how I feel, because the amps and synth overpowering will have a great adverse effect on my listening pleasure to the show.

[Jeff Ream]

i think judges mention it. even on the local band level i am involved with, it gets mentioned.

i think the issue is most judges are afraid to make a serious statement numbers wise over it, with the exception of big shows that have percussion judge #2 upstairs.

a perfect example i recall 2 years ago was a band with a fabulous pit.....but the the amps were turned up to about 9000000000000000000000000.

yeah judges talked about it, but the numbers really didnt reflect it.

i have tired to follow recaps and reviews since this all became legal, and i really have only seen one time where an upstairs judge made a statement on a noticable balance issue, and that was perc judge #2 at Allentown last year.

[Storkysr]

Doesn't anyone think that the use of a synth gives one person vastly inordinate power and abilities when compared to the other 100+ who labor under the constricts of producing only one musical sound? How do you properly allocate credit/blame?