jwscv87 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Great music, poor visual design. However, Vanguard is Vanguard and will always have a strong fan following that loves the show to pieces! This idea that the music is nice, visual is subpar but folks will love them anyway just because they are the Vanguard is a complete load in my opinion. People will love this show for no other reason than it is a great show. The visual is not poorly designed at all. It is different that established norms of the day. The visual is absolutely beautiful IMHO. I will buy that is is less demanding that many others, but poor? Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This idea that the music is nice, visual is subpar but folks will love them anyway just because they are the Vanguard is a complete load in my opinion. People will love this show for no other reason than it is a great show. The visual is not poorly designed at all. It is different that established norms of the day. The visual is absolutely beautiful IMHO. I will buy that is is less demanding that many others, but poor? Absolutely not. Agreed... I was watching the OnDemand videos on the FN and thought SCV had, by far, the smoothest and most elegant transitions between sets. There are definitely elements of drill from the last 3 years but on a smaller and more subtle scale. Each drill moment seems to really reflect what is going on in the music so it all meshes together quite beautifully. On the other hand, there is BD. I LOVE BD's show this year and their drill seems quite break-neck but as far as connecting with the music they are playing... it's okay but displaying 1930 3x in the also-titled show is a little much. I'm not a pro on design but that's just how I felt. BD's Guard though really knocks it out of the park for them. Anyway, Ballet for Martha ROCKS. I just wish I could see this show live in person during the last week on tour but work and money are playing a factor. Also, for some dumb reason... NONE of the Bay Area's THREE International Airports fly directly to Indy. I am not a fan of flying so connecting flights are definitely my enemy. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizerifin Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This idea that the music is nice, visual is subpar but folks will love them anyway just because they are the Vanguard is a complete load in my opinion. People will love this show for no other reason than it is a great show. The visual is not poorly designed at all. It is different that established norms of the day. The visual is absolutely beautiful IMHO. I will buy that is is less demanding that many others, but poor? Absolutely not. I'm sure Vanguard gets plenty of unconditional love from its fans, and the same can be said for every corps. Visually, I don't like what they're doing. I thought they were progressing these past couple of years towards more intelligent drill design, but this year I don't see many instances of creative design that goes beyond the typical "have the corps form shapes for 11 minutes" mindset we see so often. Another complaint is a lack of theme to tie the parts of the show together. You don't really need one to make a show entertaining, but to really draw high GE scores, it's usually required. Their show does a good job of creating emotional appeal which works really well for a lot of people. The ending is almost guaranteed to make the show something that will be remembered. To be clear, I like the show. I don't think it's designed to win in the visual department, but that's merely my opinion. I hope I'm wrong :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alto92 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) I'm sure Vanguard gets plenty of unconditional love from its fans, and the same can be said for every corps. Visually, I don't like what they're doing. I thought they were progressing these past couple of years towards more intelligent drill design, but this year I don't see many instances of creative design that goes beyond the typical "have the corps form shapes for 11 minutes" mindset we see so often. Another complaint is a lack of theme to tie the parts of the show together. You don't really need one to make a show entertaining, but to really draw high GE scores, it's usually required. Their show does a good job of creating emotional appeal which works really well for a lot of people. The ending is almost guaranteed to make the show something that will be remembered.To be clear, I like the show. I don't think it's designed to win in the visual department, but that's merely my opinion. I hope I'm wrong :) I know you're entitled to your opinion, but do you have to be so condescending about it? The thing about this show is that no one element takes precedence over another. Yes, music drives the show, but the narrative of the show, what makes this show unique is the complete interpretive interdependence among the elements. If pressed, I would argue that it's LESS progressive to have 'themed' shows which rely on visual or musical gimmicry versus a show like SCV 09, Star '93 which relies on 12 minutes as a piece of canvas. I even disagree that it 'wasn't designed to win.' It's any corps' leap of faith to design any top visual program. Some years you nail it, others you don't. I think it's still way too early to tell. /pardon my poorly written, stream of consciousness style - it's a bit late.. Edited July 2, 2009 by alto92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradrick Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This idea that the music is nice, visual is subpar but folks will love them anyway just because they are the Vanguard is a complete load in my opinion. People will love this show for no other reason than it is a great show. The visual is not poorly designed at all. It is different that established norms of the day. The visual is absolutely beautiful IMHO. I will buy that is is less demanding that many others, but poor? Absolutely not. This is something I've been thinking about constantly since I saw SCV on Saturday at DCI West. The drill seems to be easier than previous years. However, it is completely subjective to say that it is a "poor" or "subpar" product. I bring this up because from where >>>I<<< was sitting, the show was plenty effective and the audience felt the beauty and artistic "arc" of the show and really seemed to respond to it. This was felt by the crowd during SCV's performance in a way that was clearly not felt when other corps were performing shows with more difficult visual programs. And SCV is performing well right now. A VERY clean SCV for June. So, I guess if the negative labels are meant to indicate that the visual design undercuts their chances for making a run for the top spot, there may be some validity to that (knowing what I know about what it takes to make a run for it, potential for growth etc etc.) But in my opinion, I'd rather see them perform a beautiful show all season that has class and character and palatable feeling of refinement - than to see them struggle to perform a show that is slightly out of reach for the sake of the possibility (with certainly no guarantee) of few more points at the end of the season. (Sidenote: This is not meant to slight BD, they are really performing their show well. It also bears pointing out that BD's show while being a total "apple" to SCV's "orange" (jazz vs classical) has it's easy visual side too. They get to sit in chairs and are doing other things (appropriate for the show) besides running for 11 minutes. Each corps should be given the same degree of latitude to design their own "apple" or "orange". Lord... that really sounds silly doesn't it? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalier81 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (Sidenote: This is not meant to slight BD, they are really performing their show well. It also bears pointing out that BD's show while being a total "apple" to SCV's "orange" (jazz vs classical) has it's easy visual side too. They get to sit in chairs and are doing other things (appropriate for the show) besides running for 11 minutes. Each corps should be given the same degree of latitude to design their own "apple" or "orange". Lord... that really sounds silly doesn't it? ) Bradrick, You are right on. While some might say it's a "Design Mistake"... Others say "Design Choice" This show fits together like none others I've seen this year. You don't see forced transitions to move props around, no distractions of uniform changes that don't always work, leaving performers out for the rest of the show. Apples to Oranges. yes. and these oranges are SWEET!!! Vanguard's show was designed as one package. Not one caption given more weight then another. It is much more demanding putting a show like this together. As a drill designer myself, I , as well as most designers I know will tell you. It is easier to write hard/demanding drill then is is to write maybe a simpler/cohesive (keeping your ego out of the design process) show. Pete and the rest of the design team has done a great job with this show. Everyone involved should be VERY proud of the product they have given the members to give to us. Thank You SCV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trumpetcam Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I agree and would rather see a classy show from beginning to end performed well with the musical elements as the focus and the visual there to complement in an elegant way. But, that's coming from a music first guy who doesn't want the insane drill to take away form the ability to play beautifully and "move" the audience. I, for one, am eager to see them live and hear that wonderful hornline play such a beautiful show! BD as well. What a great year for music in drum corps! BTW, anyone notice how similar SCV's ending is to the JSU Show 2006? Check out 8:00 on to the end. It's a classic ending and I am glad SCV chose to focus on old school and get the GE up there for a nice music effect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strongo Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'm told they gutted the drill while in the northwest, and now it's much different in parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'm told they gutted the drill while in the northwest, and now it's much different in parts. If that's the case, we might see their score drop at their next show, but that's all just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 There seems to be a lot of spaces where the corps just stands there. I fully expect them to fill those gaps to be filled with Martha Graham ballet-inspired body movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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