Bristol Brawl

[Piper]

Did you cancel your appointment with the therapist again?

Of course not. He told me that my sarcasim was alive and well.

[chris ncsu]

Cadets are trying to shove 10 pounds of ideas in a 5 pound box. What made the 84 show so memorable was their beauty of the arrangements as Symphonic Dances not a mash-up medley. Is drum corps so ADHD oriented that a corps cannot play an a piece in & of itself? This is not just a Cadets thing - Crown & BD do the same thing. Once Cadets minimize their ugly moments (yes there are some) the show is certainly top three and performance levels will dictate where in that range they fall.

I've seen a few others say this. On this surface, this notion is a little puzzling, since there isn't much 'artistic substance' to the show that I've seen and read about (grain of salt -- I haven't actually BEEN to a live show of it yet). There's a thread of conflict and resolution running through it, but that's really it. A big departure from their 05-08 shows.

So is what you're really complaining about the medley-ization of the show? If so, isn't the only real medley part the first number? In that first number, the basis is the Prologue to the movie/play, which itself is quite choppy and sometimes disorienting. And its intent in the show is to portray conflict. It does have fluorishes of some other WSS numbers. A Boy Like That / I Have a Love is inherently a medley, and again pits emotions against emotions. Cool is inherently a song of brooding emotions and tension, and is in spirit and sound much like what we see in the movie. Quintet is again a medley by nature, and is pretty much a classic arrangement of it. The ending, much like most Cadets endings, is a recap of the show.

1994's show was much more a meshy medley. Dance In The Gym / Mambo, leading into the slower gentler stuff where Tony and Maria meet...leading I believe into Cool...then a very clever arrangement of A Boy Like That / I Have a Love...leading into Tonight...then Officer Krupke...to a fast ending. That show had BRILLIANT transitions, with more and more listenings of it I think it's an incredibly clever musical show.

Anyway,I think I've lost my point...I guess I'm trying to get at the root of what you believe is lacking in the show.

[barigirl78]

As I read some of the commentary on the Cadets, I feel it's getting lost that they are doing very well and are likely to finish higher than last year.

Maybe some sense of perspective is necessary.

Can someone explain why the reactions come off like they aren't even making finals?

Is this a matter of inflated expectations?

Edited July 4, 2009 by barigirl78

[emc2]

Actually what freaks me out about Crown's movement is not so much what they do as how they sound when they're doing it. Going into and out of the ground while playing with such beautiful support and intonation is very impressive.

I like crown sound they play move stop pose play some more and even move up tempo for min or two. The kids do a good job.

[dunkertim]

Just a question about scoring/judging. If 3 or 4 members drop on the field during drill, how does that affect (or should affect) their scores?

I'm fairly new to the DCI world, two daughters are guard with BAC (2nd year and rookie) and they could care less about the scores, and I've adopted their attitude. But I still wonder why/how HNC's scores went up after a number of their members went down???? I would think that them going down affected the effect and even musicality (3-4 instruments dropping out of site), and would somehow affect their score, at least from the previous night when they didn't fall down??

Maybe, you need to fall down more so your scores can go up??? Please help... Not trying to be sarcastic, but also am not tuned in to the political nature of the judging, if that is the case.

Thanks in advance.........

[Tez]

I've seen a few others say this. On this surface, this notion is a little puzzling, since there isn't much 'artistic substance' to the show that I've seen and read about (grain of salt -- I haven't actually BEEN to a live show of it yet). There's a thread of conflict and resolution running through it, but that's really it. A big departure from their 05-08 shows.

So is what you're really complaining about the medley-ization of the show? If so, isn't the only real medley part the first number? In that first number, the basis is the Prologue to the movie/play, which itself is quite choppy and sometimes disorienting. And its intent in the show is to portray conflict. It does have fluorishes of some other WSS numbers. A Boy Like That / I Have a Love is inherently a medley, and again pits emotions against emotions. Cool is inherently a song of brooding emotions and tension, and is in spirit and sound much like what we see in the movie. Quintet is again a medley by nature, and is pretty much a classic arrangement of it. The ending, much like most Cadets endings, is a recap of the show.

1994's show was much more a meshy medley. Dance In The Gym / Mambo, leading into the slower gentler stuff where Tony and Maria meet...leading I believe into Cool...then a very clever arrangement of A Boy Like That / I Have a Love...leading into Tonight...then Officer Krupke...to a fast ending. That show had BRILLIANT transitions, with more and more listenings of it I think it's an incredibly clever musical show.

Anyway,I think I've lost my point...I guess I'm trying to get at the root of what you believe is lacking in the show.

My biggest problem with the Cadet's show is not big picture, or the transitions between sections so much, it's in the small musical transitions from measure to measure. It seems that certain phrases don't resolve correctly or some cadences are unusual.... basically just arranging things. The chord progressions just don't flow at many points in the show. This surprises me because I'm usually a huge fan of Jay Bocook writing... Right now, I think this is probably their most poorly arranged show since I can remember. That is just my opinion and hopefully they can make the adjustments to change that.

[chris ncsu]

My biggest problem with the Cadet's show is not big picture, or the transitions between sections so much, it's in the small musical transitions from measure to measure. It seems that certain phrases don't resolve correctly or some cadences are unusual.... basically just arranging things. The chord progressions just don't flow at many points in the show. This surprises me because I'm usually a huge fan of Jay Bocook writing... Right now, I think this is probably their most poorly arranged show since I can remember. That is just my opinion and hopefully they can make the adjustments to change that.

Hm, gotcha. If you're right, that's curious indeed. Curioser and curioser!

[supersop]

As I read some of the commentary on the Cadets, I feel it's getting lost that they are doing very well and are likely to finish higher than last year.

Maybe some sense of perspective is necessary.

Can someone explain why the reactions come off like they aren't even making finals?

Is this a matter of inflated expectations?

There's no such thing as "Inflated Expectations" with the Cadets. Fan$, Honks and Borg alike have always expected a superior product from them. Being critical of the offering is in many ways a compliment and a confidence that if we can notice problems, we know the staff does as well and will either have time to fix them, or all will be disappointed. The members know the expectation levels ......... there is no perspective.

[BRASSO]

Just a question about scoring/judging. If 3 or 4 members drop on the field during drill, how does that affect (or should affect) their scores?

I'm fairly new to the DCI world, two daughters are guard with BAC (2nd year and rookie) and they could care less about the scores, and I've adopted their attitude. But I still wonder why/how HNC's scores went up after a number of their members went down???? I would think that them going down affected the effect and even musicality (3-4 instruments dropping out of site), and would somehow affect their score, at least from the previous night when they didn't fall down??

Maybe, you need to fall down more so your scores can go up??? Please help... Not trying to be sarcastic, but also am not tuned in to the political nature of the judging, if that is the case.

Thanks in advance.........

I think you've raised an interesting question here. The Holy Name Cadets had noone fall down in their Beverly show and scored a 81.500. The next night in Bristol they had 4 members fall down in the performance from reports there. Despite this, THN Cadets score went UP 1.3 points over the previous show the night before to a 82.800. None of the Corps below them, ie Boston Crusaders, Crossmen, Jersey Surf had members fall down in Bristol according to reports. Despite this, none of these Corps saw their score go up by more than 6 tenths from the previous night, half the increase of Cadets.

This is perplexing, and there is no explanation that we'll ever have forthcoming. Is it possible that other elements of The Cadets show was so much better performed within 24 hours that a member falling down would not adversely affect their score ? Yes, that's possible, but unlikely. And we are not talking about one member falling down. 4 members fell down. And lets be frank here. Nothing hurts a visual shows impact more than a performer falling to the ground. Yet their score ( including visual score ) goes up ? and up by double over other Corps ? Corps that had NO members fall down, let alone 4 ?

Is is fair to assume that had this NOT been The Cadets that had 4 members fall to the ground, that there is little chance their scores would go up 1.3 points from the previous night where no one from their Corps fell down during the performance ?

Sure. Absent a plausable explanation, it's certainly possible that some Corps are favored in the judging community and some others simply are not.

Edited July 4, 2009 by BRASSO

[chris ncsu]

I think you've raised an interesting question here. The Holy Name Cadets had noone fall down in their Beverly show and scored a 81.500. The next night in Bristol they had 4 members fall down in the performance from reports there. Despite this, THN Cadets score went UP 1.3 points over the previous show the night before to a 82.800. None of the Corps below them, ie Boston Crusaders, Crossmen, Jersey Surf had members fall down in Bristol according to reports. Despite this, none of these Corps saw their score go up by more than 6 tenths from the previous night, half the increase of Cadets.

This is perplexing, and there is no explanation that we'll ever have forthcoming. Is it possible that other elements of The Cadets show was so much better performed within 24 hours that a member falling down would not adversely affect their score ? Yes, that's possible, but unlikely. And we are not talking about one member falling down. 4 members fell down. And lets be frank here. Nothing hurts a visual shows impact more than a performer falling to the ground. Yet their score goes up ? and up by double over other Corps ? Corps that had NO members fall down, let alone 4.... FOUR members fall down in performance ?

Is is fair to assume that had this NOT been The Cadets that had 4 members fall to the ground, that there is little chance their scores would go up 1.3 points from the previous night where no one from their Corps fell down during the performance ?

Sure. Absent a plausable explanation, it's certainly possible that some Corps are favored and some others are not.

Yes, BUT the gap between Cadets and Crown widened by quite a bit. So did Crown suddenly perform that much better than HNC than the night before? Or perhaps HNC (falls and all) had a worse show than the night before...but both Crown's and HNC's scores were inflated. Why were they inflated? Well, Crown went on before HNC, and the judges collectively thought they were hella better than those who went on before, but they just happened to 'overshoot' a little perhaps in HOW much better they were. Thus the 85. Then, HNC went on. Clearly not as good as Crown, and seemingly not as good as the previous night, so the gap widened (perhaps as it should), though the NUMBERS went up because Crown's overshoot dragged HNC with them.

Edited July 4, 2009 by chris ncsu