Lead Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 They have several rehearsal days coming up... I'm guessing big changes are coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 So I think now we're prepared to accept that last year's 1st place corps will finish this year somewhere in the bottom 6. Where most people are pointing to show design issues, I want to remind everyone that they switched from King Brass to Jupiter this season. With that said, how do we feel about this decision now? (reference the thread that discusses a lack of baritone presence) Does this switch to Jupiter have anything to do with Phantom's problems?NOTICE- This is not a thread is not here for people to bash Phantom, but only to discuss the relationship between where they stand and the Jupiter instruments they play. Brass Performance: 7th (one sub. 6th, one 8th) Music Ensemble: 5th GE Music average: 9th These are the only captions relevant to brass performance It's hard telling, but I would guess, judging by those numbers, it's a design issue. It might be the horns to a small extent (they DEFINITELY do not have the sound they have had in the past, at least judging off of Fan Network), but the design is the overwhelming reason. With a better show, they could still potentially be sitting in 5th or higher: who knows. But while I really am not sold on Jupiter, I would not be quick to blame Jupiter brass for Phantoms scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkfdPRphan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 As several have mentioned the scores have nothing to do with the brass. As I mentioned in my first post of the year on Phantoms show, I put them in 7th come finals. I also stated that their brass and percussion are top 2-3 material, however the visuals and color guard would bring them down in those captions as well.That's the way the system is set-up. The judging has to have a way to justify the scores given. Even if Phantoms percussion is the best, they will not be scored that way to leave room at the top. I can assure you the other corps know how good they are. Same with the Brass. I will say this and maybe it's just me but it appears Phantom is experimenting with their drill. I see similarities between what they are trying to do and what the cavies did just prior to refining their current visual program. The style is different from what Phantom has done in the past even if it is basic. GOOD THOUGHT! Hadnt even considered that fact! For the rest of the season (unless a miracle happens!) Phantom will be on the field BEFORE several of the corps who are scoring above them. As posted above, and I agree, Phantom might have the best percussion of the competition, but they will be judged just a bit lower IN CASE one of the higher scoring corps do perform better......so true. BUT it doesnt change the Visual scores. And.....I will agree that every show I have attended that Phantom has performed in, has had major visual changes - not tweeks or adjustments, but major changes. Perhaps they havent found a visual that they are happy with either! ....better find it soon! Doesnt all the visual changes also have an effect on how the brass and percussion is placed on the field? Placement then effects sound.....which we have questioned when it comes to Phantoms great bass sound in previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The last time I heard and saw them, a couple weeks ago, it was really the visual that kills the score!Take a look at Saturdays recap. IF Phantom had scored a complete set of 1's for brass and ensamble, would it have put them in the Top 5 or 6? ....I do miss that rich, dark sound of those 16 contras........... Looking forward to better visual scores in Atlanta!!!!! I agree, watching their show in Fan Network Saturday I was horrified by how bad their visual design is. There are not many Top 12 corps this year with worse design than them. Last year was bad enough, but this year it WILL keep them out of Top 6. It's odd to me that their guy from last year apparently devolved as a designer: last year was first year and it was mediocre with problems but good enough to be over-balanced by their music. This year it is worse than last year, and without the out-of-this-world music performance from the corps, will be exposed as the sub-finalist quality it is: especially as the lower corps get cleaner and their designs are more readable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 ....better find it soon!Doesnt all the visual changes also have an effect on how the brass and percussion is placed on the field? Placement then effects sound.....which we have questioned when it comes to Phantoms great bass sound in previous years. Not only that, but when performing new drill the brass/percussion members aren't super confident with the visual and probably thinking too hard on the visual, thus sacrificing quality in the music department. I think it's possible their music scores will improve once Phantom settles into drill (no matter how bad it is). By finals, assuming Phantom isn't changing too much Finals week, it's possible their drum line can still win high percussion. It is a HUGE uphill battle, but it's possible. Phantom's percussion section the last several years has earned the reputation as AMAZING, and I can see judges giving them the win if they perform great (it would probably askew the numbers low for the other top percussion groups placing underneath Phantom's percussion, but it's possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Seems like Jupiter got a "break" with PRs visual being so bad. If the visual was up in the top 4 with their percussion and the brass was still 7th, then those horns would be gone next year or sooner depending on the contract requirements. Justified or not. That is interesting, and possibly true. It's hard to know if Phantom were sitting in, say, 4th, if their brass score would still be below Top 6. Chances are for them to be Top 4, their brass would have to be good enough to score well in GE Music and Music Ensemble. However, you're right: with Phantom sitting 8th, almost 9th, the focus is on poor visual as opposed to their still-overachieving-the overall show 7th place brass. We'll see come finals. However, JD Shaw is more than likely NOT going back on the Jupiter switch, so perhaps worst-case-scenario is that Jupiter's low brass horns get an overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsreed Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I think Jupiter horns stink. Phantom doesn’t sound like Phantom, but they're not the only suffering from the Jupiter switch. I've also heard Academy over the past several years. From what I understand, they truly stood out when they were on Kanstul horns. Since the switch to Jupiter, they haven't even sounded half as good. Fortunately for Dy-Nasty, Jupiter has supplanted them from the designation of worst sounding horns. Both brands stink, but Jupiter does stink a little more. I can only imagine how good BD, Phantom, and Academy would sound on quality horns, such as Kanstul or King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I haven't seen anyone going after the musical performance as an issue, so I seriously doubt changing the brand of the hornline has created this massive impact. The comments have primarily been focused around their visual design. Likewise with the recaps. Look at Brass Tech score from S/A - they are in 11th place (a 3 way tie for 8th with Blue Star / Boston) so yeah, either they forgot how to play or are being dumped it makes no sense assuming you have ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 A good craftsman never blames their tools. ($1 to Dan Patrick and Keith Olberman) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 BD plays on Dynasty horns and have won way more brass trophies than anyone else. It isn't the horns it is the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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